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By: - 6th April 2006 at 14:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nah, can't be right...
Surely the F-22 couldn't be got by a sub-par... :D
As Sean Connery would say:
"Shhurley shhome mishhtake"
By: - 6th April 2006 at 14:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
wouldnt be surprised, its not ass if the Raptor is an invicible super plane
By: - 6th April 2006 at 14:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
yeah i saw this to over on Tanknet yesterday, intersting eh, looks like there in a real good knife fight there at some very low airspeeds. But i dont think you can read to much into it because for all we know the fight started as a dogfight with the super bug on the raptors six. No im not saying thats what happened definatly but 'practice' engagements will often have situations like that, ie both planes fly to engagement area together then position themselves where they are wanted - even if that means putting your top of the line jet in a disadvantaged position so as you can find out just what tactics and skills you need to get out of the said problem (having a big bug on your six in this case) . Bet hes one well liked bug pilot now though hehe. i'd imagine the Bug pilot tried to bring the raptor down to the speed which the bug likes - very slow and lots of high AOA and where he can nullify the raptors advantage. great stuff though. oh oh one last thing - is the raptor locked up by the bug? i guess he would be at that range cos even stealthy jets must surly get eaten by radar when that close.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 14:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I would think the F-22 would be significantly better than the Hornet in all regions of the flight envelope. The F-18 E/F doesn't have a controllable AoA up to 60+ deg does it? Does it even have an unlimited & carefree flight envelope ?
If I had to make a serious guess, I would say that it was a 1 on 4 or something.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 15:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
yeah i saw this to over on Tanknet yesterday, intersting eh, looks like there in a real good knife fight there at some very low airspeeds. But i dont think you can read to much into it because for all we know the fight started as a dogfight with the super bug on the raptors six. No im not saying thats what happened definatly but 'practice' engagements will often have situations like that, ie both planes fly to engagement area together then position themselves where they are wanted - even if that means putting your top of the line jet in a disadvantaged position so as you can find out just what tactics and skills you need to get out of the said problem (having a big bug on your six in this case) . Bet hes one well liked bug pilot now though hehe. i'd imagine the Bug pilot tried to bring the raptor down to the speed which the bug likes - very slow and lots of high AOA and where he can nullify the raptors advantage. great stuff though. oh oh one last thing - is the raptor locked up by the bug? i guess he would be at that range cos even stealthy jets must surly get eaten by radar when that close.
I would really have to wonder why the Raptor's pilot simply didn't disengage?
It would seem as if a Super Hornet would need full afterburner to keep up with a F-22 at full military power?
By: - 6th April 2006 at 15:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Were thees picures officially released? are they even real? For all we know it could be a multi-bogey Dogfight etc etc..
By: - 6th April 2006 at 16:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Could have happened. Low Speed knife fight. The SH is quite good at pointing the nose.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 16:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
i don't doubt its real - maybe im thick and its a wonderfull april fools come a few days late! I think at very very low airspeeds the Bug could indeed come out on top as could say and f16 or even mig 15 :) I'd love to read more about, guy on tanknet said it was on another forum he got it from and this was before it was on this one. ACIG maybe? i'm not a member of it but if anyone knows more details or finds more details out then it would be cool to hear more about this engagment. All i really wanna see though is Eurofighter up against F-22 , now that you could make a film out of, your guess is as good as mine on who would come out on top but sure as hell would be cool to see or even read about. Red Flag exercise in 5 years time maybe - might it happen? (please say yes ,please say yes lol).
By: - 6th April 2006 at 17:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
ONE little question - How do we know that the HUD footage is actually from a Super Bug??
By: - 6th April 2006 at 17:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
lol damn good point, that but one clue is it looks like a very modern hud i think. Somebody must know more about this for us all.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 17:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
the original topic was at simhq?
By: - 6th April 2006 at 18:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And who's to say the superbug wasn't already killed @ 30 miles before even detecting the Raptor and both sides progressed to the visual fight to continue the training?
By: - 6th April 2006 at 18:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Or whos to say that the Bug pilot didnt just get lucky, the Raptor made a mistake, no aircraft or pilot is invincible. But it goes with out saying that some are better than others.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 18:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Or that there wasnt even a fight and the Super bug just wanted something to show off...
By: - 6th April 2006 at 18:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Or whos to say that the Bug pilot didnt just get lucky, the Raptor made a mistake, no aircraft or pilot is invincible. But it goes with out saying that some are better than others.
A good point..!!! There are open testimonials of F-15's getting Raptor kills in WVR..as well as those of USAF F-16's getting SU-30's of the IAF>
By: - 6th April 2006 at 19:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
F-18s have huge control surfaces because of low speed handling needed to land on an aircraft carrier. I don't doubt that a SH can get a snapshot at an adversary due to excellent ITR nose pointing at low speed. The issue with SH becomes sustained turn rate because of high alpha drag and low specific power.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 19:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I got those pics from a local brazilian forum that i´m member and the opinions are basically the same as yours.
My intention was only share with you for further comments.
Cheers,
A-29
By: - 6th April 2006 at 19:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes i know..Butbketgs before we arrive to any conclusions we need to answer the following questions!!
1) Are these images real.
2) We need a positive ID for the Super Hornet HUD
3) Atleast some explaination on the ROE etc etc etc
I am fully willing to beileve that in a situation the SH can dogfight its way to a victory..Dogfights by defination are 50:50 (specially with the same weapons) Also a point worth mentioning is that many SH pilots have the aim-9x and JHMCS whereas the raptor does not. Although in these pictures we dont see any need for offboresighting however the tactical limitation still exists for the raptor pilot - He simply has to avoid the arc as they call it.
I'll reiterate it again their are documented evidences where F-15's have had some successes in WVR against the raptor..So i'm in no way astonished to see such imagery although due to the lack of anything else a bit suspect. Also the possibilites are endless.
By: - 6th April 2006 at 23:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
its from a game it seems, clouds look very fake and the level of detail is low even for as reduced photograph
By: - 7th April 2006 at 01:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
the view put the super hornet almost looking straight down on the raptor. can someone actually read the data from the HUD.liked air speed and the position the F-18 is in?. also in the the first pic the altitude is at 1000 feets the second at 900 feets. is this correct?.
Posts: 562
By: A-29 - 6th April 2006 at 14:11 - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 11:40
Here two pictures of a USAF Raptor being locked by a Super Hornet.
Cheers
A-29 (Tucanão)