By: swerve
- 9th May 2017 at 16:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
100 modules for Smart-S Mk 2 radars. Read that again & think about it. What are these modules? Why so few? A single Selex/SAAB ES-05 Raven AESA radar has about 1000 TRMs, for example. What sort of radar is the Smart-S Mk 2? Who is buying it? And where is it being made nowadays?
Thales isn't buying GaN T/R modules from Aselsan for AESA radars. Aselsan is fitting Aselsan-made transmit modules (almost certainly GaAs) into licence-built PESA radars for Turkish navy ships (it's retrofitting old ships with Smart-S Mk 2, & fitting it to a few new ships), & maybe supplying modules for radars bought by Malaysia (2 to 6), Algeria (3), New Zealand (2) & Poland (1). I think Turkey may be the biggest current customer for the radar.
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Posts: 375
By: Bayar
- 9th May 2017 at 17:15Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Aselsan and Thales contract was used to illustrate how South Korea could do the same with Aselsan for its AESA radar.
Considering that ASELSAN has already developed an airborne AESA radar for combat aircraft and also a Multi Function Active Phased Array Radar (CAFRAD) the Koreans should just enter into a JV with them.
The below shows how far Turkey has come in GaN based nanotransistor production. Only about 5 countries in the world have the capacity to produce high-power nanotransistors.
Micro Nano Technologies (AB-MikroNano) Sanayi ve Ticaret A.Ş., a joint-venture between Aselsan and Bilkent University produces many GaN based nano-transistors for export.
Just by way of comparison ASELSAN's CAFRAD X band radar has more than 10,000+ TRMS.
By: EagleSpirit
- 9th May 2017 at 17:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Turkey can call us up when they have 50W X-Band TRMs utilising GaN HEMT technology. Something that only the very most advanced institutes and companies in the US, Europe, and Japan have. Korea is trying to research these technologies through ETRI in conjunction with Korean companies that have experience in military radars such as LiGNex1 and Hanwha Systems.
The 30W T/R Module in the second image does look promising but is that GaN/GaAs based or something else?
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Posts: 375
By: Bayar
- 9th May 2017 at 18:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The 30W T/R Module is GaN based and designed for active phased array radars.
By: mrmalaya
- 10th May 2017 at 12:46Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Y-20 Bacon, You seem uncommonly perturbed by the suggestion that Turkey contributes anything to the aerospace/defence world. For what its worth, I disagree with you and the moderator on the subject of the TFX thread. You got that closed because it was about an aircraft that is yet to fly.
What are we discussing here then? You are not as vexxed by a Korean LM clone, so I wonder why the Turkish plane is so offensive to you.
Surely this korean fighter should not have its own thread?
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Posts: 375
By: Bayar
- 10th May 2017 at 12:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Every TF-X thread I started on the site has been shut down.
I had started threads on flying Turkish platforms as well (e.g. TAI ANKA MALE UAV, TAI Hurkus-C Coin aircraft etc) and they too have been shut down.
So I wouldn't bother as the decisions are politically motivated.
Its a shame but it only reflects on the site and its reputation.
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Posts: 8,850
By: MSphere
- 10th May 2017 at 13:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You got the Turkish Aerospace thread.. that's enough.. no one needs to have a separate thread on everything that TAI churns out..
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Posts: 375
By: Bayar
- 10th May 2017 at 13:26Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do you want me to list how many threads Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Saab, KAI etc have on here?
No one is creating threads for "everything TAI churns out". This is an aerospace forum and we discuss new technologies.
Why should we ignore new Armed MALE classed UAV systems, new COIN aircraft, new 6 ton helicopters etc if we are talking about defence technologies?
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Posts: 8,850
By: MSphere
- 10th May 2017 at 14:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do you want me to list how many threads Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Saab, KAI etc have on here?
I can't see a single thread on Boeing, personally.. or on SAAB.. not even on LockMart..
Why should we ignore new Armed MALE classed UAV systems, new COIN aircraft, new 6 ton helicopters etc if we are talking about defence technologies?
I cannot see separate threads on PC-7, PC-9, PC-21, Super Tucano or KT-1, either.. why should I discuss your Hurkus?
I don't give damn about it and even less I give damn about your nationalistic pride..
By: haavarla
- 10th May 2017 at 15:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Every TF-X thread I started on the site has been shut down.
I had started threads on flying Turkish platforms as well (e.g. TAI ANKA MALE UAV, TAI Hurkus-C Coin aircraft etc) and they too have been shut down.
So I wouldn't bother as the decisions are politically motivated.
Its a shame but it only reflects on the site and its reputation.
Look again.. there is USAF and F-35 thread. VKS and PakFa thread. PLAAF and J-20, but most of the time its only one thread per country.. deal with it.
Besides if you want to talk UAV's, there is a general UAV thread as well here.
Recommend you do not come on here all green and fresh, starts complaining and demanding.
Moderators has explained why you only get to have one thread, Turkish AF. It should suffice.
By: mrmalaya
- 10th May 2017 at 15:56Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The point I was making (incidentally) was that if Bayar's Turkish fighter thread was closed down because it is not flying, then you can apply the same logic to this Korean programme, or the 6th Gen thread.
Given the amount of interesting information he is prepared to post (which is not all rubbish despite what J-20 Bacon claims), surely there is room for a Turkish thread a T-FX thread? I am very interested to hear about how the BAE/RR input shapes the project and this aspect of the programme makes it stand out.
I have been guilty of the same thing by the way. The number of threads I have started about Taranis/FCAS/next gen European fighters/defence white papers because they didn't fit elsewhere or would get lost in the noise of F35 discussion doesn't bear thinking about!
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Posts: 2,040
By: Y-20 Bacon
- 10th May 2017 at 16:53Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
so you saying you agree with his claims that the TFX is more mature and advanced than the fc-31 and j-20? lol
Posts: 375
By: Bayar - 9th May 2017 at 13:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why don't the Korean's just purchase their GaN based T/R modules from Turkey like Thales?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]253249[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]253250[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]253251[/ATTACH]
Aselsan produces t/r modules for their own AESA radar systems: http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/press-room/Brochures/Microwave-Products/TRANSMIT_RECEIVE_MODULES_ENG.pdf
Aselsan also supplies T/R modules for THALES: http://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/22664-aselsan-to-provide-transmitterreceiver-modules-for-thales-radar
Posts: 13,432
By: swerve - 9th May 2017 at 16:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
100 modules for Smart-S Mk 2 radars. Read that again & think about it. What are these modules? Why so few? A single Selex/SAAB ES-05 Raven AESA radar has about 1000 TRMs, for example. What sort of radar is the Smart-S Mk 2? Who is buying it? And where is it being made nowadays?
Thales isn't buying GaN T/R modules from Aselsan for AESA radars. Aselsan is fitting Aselsan-made transmit modules (almost certainly GaAs) into licence-built PESA radars for Turkish navy ships (it's retrofitting old ships with Smart-S Mk 2, & fitting it to a few new ships), & maybe supplying modules for radars bought by Malaysia (2 to 6), Algeria (3), New Zealand (2) & Poland (1). I think Turkey may be the biggest current customer for the radar.
Posts: 375
By: Bayar - 9th May 2017 at 17:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Aselsan and Thales contract was used to illustrate how South Korea could do the same with Aselsan for its AESA radar.
Considering that ASELSAN has already developed an airborne AESA radar for combat aircraft and also a Multi Function Active Phased Array Radar (CAFRAD) the Koreans should just enter into a JV with them.
The below shows how far Turkey has come in GaN based nanotransistor production. Only about 5 countries in the world have the capacity to produce high-power nanotransistors.
http://bilnews.bilkent.edu.tr/aselsan-and-bilkent-found-company-to-produce-advanced-nanotransistors/
http://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/26653-aselans-new-phased-array-and-scalable-sige-integrated-circuits#.V1_yhm-elic.hootsuite
Micro Nano Technologies (AB-MikroNano) Sanayi ve Ticaret A.Ş., a joint-venture between Aselsan and Bilkent University produces many GaN based nano-transistors for export.
Just by way of comparison ASELSAN's CAFRAD X band radar has more than 10,000+ TRMS.
Posts: 3,765
By: Sintra - 9th May 2017 at 17:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why would Korea work with Turkey when they have offers from the likes of Thales, IAI, Selex, etc?
Posts: 375
By: Bayar - 9th May 2017 at 17:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Because South Korea and Turkey have been working together for a long time.
Posts: 171
By: EagleSpirit - 9th May 2017 at 17:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Turkey can call us up when they have 50W X-Band TRMs utilising GaN HEMT technology. Something that only the very most advanced institutes and companies in the US, Europe, and Japan have. Korea is trying to research these technologies through ETRI in conjunction with Korean companies that have experience in military radars such as LiGNex1 and Hanwha Systems.
The 30W T/R Module in the second image does look promising but is that GaN/GaAs based or something else?
Posts: 375
By: Bayar - 9th May 2017 at 18:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The 30W T/R Module is GaN based and designed for active phased array radars.
http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/press-room/Brochures/Microwave-Products/X_BAND_MODULE_ENG.pdf
ASELSAN has GaN HEMT on SiC growth technology and is working on greater than 50W X-Band TRMs.
This facility is dedicated for GaN technologies R&D by ASELSAN and it is the largest of its kind in Europe commissioned in 2015.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]253260[/ATTACH]
Posts: 2,040
By: Y-20 Bacon - 10th May 2017 at 06:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Usually the Turks seek assistance from the South Koreans and base their designs on the Korean originals.
not the other way around
Altay is just a K2 with extra wheels
Posts: 375
By: Bayar - 10th May 2017 at 07:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ah yes the Altay is an exact replica of the K2. NOT.
Posts: 2,040
By: Y-20 Bacon - 10th May 2017 at 08:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
remove the era ;)
Posts: 4,619
By: mrmalaya - 10th May 2017 at 12:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Y-20 Bacon, You seem uncommonly perturbed by the suggestion that Turkey contributes anything to the aerospace/defence world. For what its worth, I disagree with you and the moderator on the subject of the TFX thread. You got that closed because it was about an aircraft that is yet to fly.
What are we discussing here then? You are not as vexxed by a Korean LM clone, so I wonder why the Turkish plane is so offensive to you.
Surely this korean fighter should not have its own thread?
Posts: 375
By: Bayar - 10th May 2017 at 12:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Every TF-X thread I started on the site has been shut down.
I had started threads on flying Turkish platforms as well (e.g. TAI ANKA MALE UAV, TAI Hurkus-C Coin aircraft etc) and they too have been shut down.
So I wouldn't bother as the decisions are politically motivated.
Its a shame but it only reflects on the site and its reputation.
Posts: 8,850
By: MSphere - 10th May 2017 at 13:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You got the Turkish Aerospace thread.. that's enough.. no one needs to have a separate thread on everything that TAI churns out..
Posts: 375
By: Bayar - 10th May 2017 at 13:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do you want me to list how many threads Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Saab, KAI etc have on here?
No one is creating threads for "everything TAI churns out". This is an aerospace forum and we discuss new technologies.
Why should we ignore new Armed MALE classed UAV systems, new COIN aircraft, new 6 ton helicopters etc if we are talking about defence technologies?
Posts: 8,850
By: MSphere - 10th May 2017 at 14:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I can't see a single thread on Boeing, personally.. or on SAAB.. not even on LockMart..
I cannot see separate threads on PC-7, PC-9, PC-21, Super Tucano or KT-1, either.. why should I discuss your Hurkus?
I don't give damn about it and even less I give damn about your nationalistic pride..
Posts: 6,441
By: haavarla - 10th May 2017 at 15:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Look again.. there is USAF and F-35 thread. VKS and PakFa thread. PLAAF and J-20, but most of the time its only one thread per country.. deal with it.
Besides if you want to talk UAV's, there is a general UAV thread as well here.
Recommend you do not come on here all green and fresh, starts complaining and demanding.
Moderators has explained why you only get to have one thread, Turkish AF. It should suffice.
Posts: 4,450
By: frankvw - 10th May 2017 at 15:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Back on topic guys, please :)
Posts: 4,619
By: mrmalaya - 10th May 2017 at 15:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The point I was making (incidentally) was that if Bayar's Turkish fighter thread was closed down because it is not flying, then you can apply the same logic to this Korean programme, or the 6th Gen thread.
Given the amount of interesting information he is prepared to post (which is not all rubbish despite what J-20 Bacon claims), surely there is room for a Turkish thread a T-FX thread? I am very interested to hear about how the BAE/RR input shapes the project and this aspect of the programme makes it stand out.
I have been guilty of the same thing by the way. The number of threads I have started about Taranis/FCAS/next gen European fighters/defence white papers because they didn't fit elsewhere or would get lost in the noise of F35 discussion doesn't bear thinking about!
Posts: 2,040
By: Y-20 Bacon - 10th May 2017 at 16:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
so you saying you agree with his claims that the TFX is more mature and advanced than the fc-31 and j-20? lol
Posts: 171
By: EagleSpirit - 10th May 2017 at 17:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do you have to keep on posting those wildly unconstructive, strawman attacks Y-20? We get it. I hope the Moderator deletes this last page of comments.