By: Anonymous
- 24th July 2004 at 21:53Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Seems like a dozen or so A-10 Thunderbolts would be ideal!
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By: jeb
- 24th July 2004 at 22:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
PhAF needs
The Philippine Air Force should look into capabilities and not specific weapon systems.
I think a multirole fighter is still needed. Considering budgetary limitations, I think the modernized F-5E/F is very well suited for the PhAF. They are familiar with the type. If it is modernized with a good radar and armed with AIM-120, even a Su-27/30 will think twice about messing with it. And if you can arm some of them with Maverick, you have some sort of anti-ship capability.
The Philippines has a very large coastline. Maritime patrol is very important. Maybe cheaper options like Airships or UAVs should be considered.
The UH-1 can still soldier on as a utility chopper, but I think the Philippines needs a small number of all-weather attack choppers which will be very useful against the insurgents. The MD-500s arre limited to daylight operations.
More C-130s will also be useful.
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By: Anonymous
- 24th July 2004 at 23:26Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
By: Canpark
- 25th July 2004 at 05:26Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Instead of purchasing F-5E/F from the ROCAF, I think the PhAF should look into surplus F-16s because they are cheap and are better then the F-5E/F in terms of capability, and can be useful against MiG-29 or Su-27/30.
By: Canpark
- 25th July 2004 at 05:28Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As for coastal patrol, I think an upgraded P-3 Orion is the best choice which also provide anti-submarine capabilities...............
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By: Anonymous
- 25th July 2004 at 06:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Instead of purchasing F-5E/F from the ROCAF, I think the PhAF should look into surplus F-16s because they are cheap and are better then the F-5E/F in terms of capability, and can be useful against MiG-29 or Su-27/30.
If, the PhAF is threaten by Mig-29's and/or Su27/30's its going to need more than F-16's!
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By: cabbageman
- 25th July 2004 at 20:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They won't get F-5 from Taiwan for political reasons.
By: GoldenDragon
- 25th July 2004 at 22:54Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If, the PhAF is threaten by Mig-29's and/or Su27/30's its going to need more than F-16's!
Depends on the F-16s. The MLU A/B is more than capable enough to take on both. Actually, for smaller air forces with limited maintenance, the chances of a F-16 being able to fly and not be laid up, like a MiG-29 or even Su-27 is far, far greater.
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By: jeb
- 26th July 2004 at 00:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Depends on the F-16s. The MLU A/B is more than capable enough to take on both. Actually, for smaller air forces with limited maintenance, the chances of a F-16 being able to fly and not be laid up, like a MiG-29 or even Su-27 is far, far greater.
I totally agree. With the advent of better radar/computers as well as air to air missiles, sometimes the particular aircraft is not as important. For air forces with limited budgets, an aircraft with low upfront cost, low maintenance cost with the range suited for a certain country's requirements is a sensible choice. An F-16 with modern radar and AMRAAM in good hands can kick the butt of any MiG-29 or Su 27/30. Same can be said with regards to an F-5E/F. It is an old design and I don't know how much more it can be modified to take in a modern radar with respectable range aside from what has already been done. I don't know who has the best upgraded F-5s nowadays. Is it Chile or Singapore?
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By: flex297
- 26th July 2004 at 09:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Philippine Air Force should look into capabilities and not specific weapon systems.
I think a multirole fighter is still needed. Considering budgetary limitations, I think the modernized F-5E/F is very well suited for the PhAF. They are familiar with the type. If it is modernized with a good radar and armed with AIM-120, even a Su-27/30 will think twice about messing with it. And if you can arm some of them with Maverick, you have some sort of anti-ship capability.
The Philippines has a very large coastline. Maritime patrol is very important. Maybe cheaper options like Airships or UAVs should be considered.
The UH-1 can still soldier on as a utility chopper, but I think the Philippines needs a small number of all-weather attack choppers which will be very useful against the insurgents. The MD-500s arre limited to daylight operations.
More C-130s will also be useful.
Phils will never get AMRAAMs. And as such any modernisation of F-5E cannot even dream of reaching Su-27/30 levels.
If they wanted a real BVR vcapability, they would have to turn on some politically independent source, such as France or China.
By: Canpark
- 26th July 2004 at 14:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If the Philippines want new fighter aircraft for its air force, why can't they look at the possbility of purchasing the LCA Tejas?
I mean, most of you agree that the LCA is cheap, then why not look at this capability, rather then going in circles with the F-5E upgrade.
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Posts: 10
By: jeb
- 26th July 2004 at 18:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Phils will never get AMRAAMs. And as such any modernisation of F-5E cannot even dream of reaching Su-27/30 levels.
It is true in terms of flight performance, the F-5E/F is no match compared to the MiG-29 or Su-27/30. As I mentioned earlier, modern radar and the advent of fire and forget medium ranged air to air missiles gives inferior aircraft (in terms of flight performance) a more level playing field. A Hawk 200 with AMRAAM can shoot down an Su-27. No doubt about it. On the other hand, I don't know how much more can be squeezed out of the F-5E in terms of modernization. You may be right that no more improvement can be made. Yet I find it hard to believe with current state of electronics/miniaturization that a decent radar can't be fitted inside the small F-5 nose cone. The key is to have the right people do it. The ones with the expertise.
Never say never. The Philippines might be able to get AMRAAM if they are willing to buy some F-16s.
If they wanted a real BVR vcapability, they would have to turn on some politically independent source, such as France or China.
I would not go to China. Why get it from a potential adversary? Russia maybe, or the Israelis or even the South Africans.
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By: Anonymous
- 26th July 2004 at 20:15Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If the Philippines want new fighter aircraft for its air force, why can't they look at the possbility of purchasing the LCA Tejas?
I mean, most of you agree that the LCA is cheap, then why not look at this capability, rather then going in circles with the F-5E upgrade.
Very good idea. If, the price is right? Any sale of the LCA would look good for India. Further, a weak PhAF is not in the interest of India. (or the US for that matter) :rolleyes:
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By: flex297
- 27th July 2004 at 07:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What does a British Hawk 200 series cost? Maybe the PhF could afford something in that class? A mix buy of twin seat 100 series (secondhand?) and a small number of single seat 200 series? The 200's with a good radar and Amraams would be a good point defense fighter. the twin seat 100's could do training and close air support against rebels........just a thought?
Some $18-19mil. That was the price offered to Slovak AF. Hawk 100 went for slightly less than this.
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Posts: 145
By: MirageIII
- 27th July 2004 at 10:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
FYI The Philippine Air Force has not taken the offer from Taiwan due to "friendly" advice from China. Regarding trainer the Pilatus serie is also to consider, being used in the area by Thailand (PC-9), Malaysia (PC-7), South Korea (PC-9), Australia (PC-9).
By: Anonymous - 24th July 2004 at 21:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Seems like a dozen or so A-10 Thunderbolts would be ideal!
Posts: 10
By: jeb - 24th July 2004 at 22:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
PhAF needs
The Philippine Air Force should look into capabilities and not specific weapon systems.
I think a multirole fighter is still needed. Considering budgetary limitations, I think the modernized F-5E/F is very well suited for the PhAF. They are familiar with the type. If it is modernized with a good radar and armed with AIM-120, even a Su-27/30 will think twice about messing with it. And if you can arm some of them with Maverick, you have some sort of anti-ship capability.
The Philippines has a very large coastline. Maritime patrol is very important. Maybe cheaper options like Airships or UAVs should be considered.
The UH-1 can still soldier on as a utility chopper, but I think the Philippines needs a small number of all-weather attack choppers which will be very useful against the insurgents. The MD-500s arre limited to daylight operations.
More C-130s will also be useful.
By: Anonymous - 24th July 2004 at 23:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good point...........
Posts: 2,991
By: Canpark - 25th July 2004 at 05:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Instead of purchasing F-5E/F from the ROCAF, I think the PhAF should look into surplus F-16s because they are cheap and are better then the F-5E/F in terms of capability, and can be useful against MiG-29 or Su-27/30.
Posts: 2,991
By: Canpark - 25th July 2004 at 05:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As for coastal patrol, I think an upgraded P-3 Orion is the best choice which also provide anti-submarine capabilities...............
By: Anonymous - 25th July 2004 at 06:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If, the PhAF is threaten by Mig-29's and/or Su27/30's its going to need more than F-16's!
Posts: 135
By: cabbageman - 25th July 2004 at 20:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They won't get F-5 from Taiwan for political reasons.
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By: GoldenDragon - 25th July 2004 at 22:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Depends on the F-16s. The MLU A/B is more than capable enough to take on both. Actually, for smaller air forces with limited maintenance, the chances of a F-16 being able to fly and not be laid up, like a MiG-29 or even Su-27 is far, far greater.
Posts: 10
By: jeb - 26th July 2004 at 00:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I totally agree. With the advent of better radar/computers as well as air to air missiles, sometimes the particular aircraft is not as important. For air forces with limited budgets, an aircraft with low upfront cost, low maintenance cost with the range suited for a certain country's requirements is a sensible choice. An F-16 with modern radar and AMRAAM in good hands can kick the butt of any MiG-29 or Su 27/30. Same can be said with regards to an F-5E/F. It is an old design and I don't know how much more it can be modified to take in a modern radar with respectable range aside from what has already been done. I don't know who has the best upgraded F-5s nowadays. Is it Chile or Singapore?
Posts: 10,217
By: flex297 - 26th July 2004 at 09:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Phils will never get AMRAAMs. And as such any modernisation of F-5E cannot even dream of reaching Su-27/30 levels.
If they wanted a real BVR vcapability, they would have to turn on some politically independent source, such as France or China.
Posts: 2,991
By: Canpark - 26th July 2004 at 14:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If the Philippines want new fighter aircraft for its air force, why can't they look at the possbility of purchasing the LCA Tejas?
I mean, most of you agree that the LCA is cheap, then why not look at this capability, rather then going in circles with the F-5E upgrade.
Posts: 10
By: jeb - 26th July 2004 at 18:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It is true in terms of flight performance, the F-5E/F is no match compared to the MiG-29 or Su-27/30. As I mentioned earlier, modern radar and the advent of fire and forget medium ranged air to air missiles gives inferior aircraft (in terms of flight performance) a more level playing field. A Hawk 200 with AMRAAM can shoot down an Su-27. No doubt about it. On the other hand, I don't know how much more can be squeezed out of the F-5E in terms of modernization. You may be right that no more improvement can be made. Yet I find it hard to believe with current state of electronics/miniaturization that a decent radar can't be fitted inside the small F-5 nose cone. The key is to have the right people do it. The ones with the expertise.
Never say never. The Philippines might be able to get AMRAAM if they are willing to buy some F-16s.
I would not go to China. Why get it from a potential adversary? Russia maybe, or the Israelis or even the South Africans.
By: Anonymous - 26th July 2004 at 20:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Very good idea. If, the price is right? Any sale of the LCA would look good for India. Further, a weak PhAF is not in the interest of India. (or the US for that matter) :rolleyes:
Posts: 10,217
By: flex297 - 27th July 2004 at 07:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some $18-19mil. That was the price offered to Slovak AF. Hawk 100 went for slightly less than this.
Posts: 145
By: MirageIII - 27th July 2004 at 10:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
FYI The Philippine Air Force has not taken the offer from Taiwan due to "friendly" advice from China. Regarding trainer the Pilatus serie is also to consider, being used in the area by Thailand (PC-9), Malaysia (PC-7), South Korea (PC-9), Australia (PC-9).