By: windhover
- 29th May 2014 at 09:25Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Control knobs
The ones on my panel are the originals; gently refinished (sanded) and polished. As for sources; I have yet to find anyone reproducing them; but this style of knob was fitted to almost every RAF kite right up to (and possibly beyond) the Shackletons.
If you do find any in-situ, be careful! They crack easily, and are secured through the lever with a bolt and a circular (Non-flatted) nut... sometimes brass; sometimes steel... that needs a special tool, like a thin screwdriver blade with the centre section removed; leaving two prongs which fit into two slots in the nut... to remove them... (and they are invariably rusted solid!)
By: Air Ministry
- 29th May 2014 at 11:32Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I've had some success with casting them too.
The trouble is, for every knob there's a lever, or more correctly, for every lever there's a knob. In other words, the knobs may look outwardly similar but the thickness, width and shape of the levers vary, meaning that each knob is more or less unique to that lever. That can add up to a lot of moulds and much casting for a complex throttle box.
It's also very frustrating having built up over the years a selection of shiny new knobs that won't fit a single lever in the collection!
By: windhover
- 5th June 2014 at 13:37Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
An update on the Throttle Quadrant.
The castings are now pretty much finished. The inboard casting was repaired using Scotch-Weld 2216 Epoxy Adhesive and three small rectangles of 18swg aluminium on the inside face of the casting. The corrosion pitting was filled with Autocare Easy Sand Car Body Filler... cheap as chips; and actually gives a smoother finish than Plastic Padding and the like.
The outboard casting was similarly filled, and re-studded using sawn-down period 2BA long shank bolts; which were then re-threaded to take period Air Ministry Simmonds 2BA nuts... an unopened box of which we found in deep storage (A rusty old filing cabinet in the corner of the workshop.)
Thanks to Air Ministry for information on the guts of the Quadrant... the putting together of which will be the next bit of fun!.
By: windhover
- 13th June 2014 at 10:18Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hawker Typhoon Throttle Quadrant.
The Throttle quadrant is now pretty well finished... thanks to Air Ministry for much useful information on the internal arrangements of the lever interlinks and spacers.
A temporary knob has been fitted to the Propeller pitch lever for effect; as we don't have one of the correct type...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229145[/ATTACH]
If anyone has a spare one lying around...(They were fitted to most pitch levers through the 40's and 50's); we would really appreciate the donation of one to the project.
The restoration has taken a total of four weeks... and much strong coffee, cursing, penetrating oil; sanding, filing and Elastoplast.
Here is the result...
By: TempestV
- 13th June 2014 at 10:27Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Throttle quadrant is now pretty well finished... thanks to Air Ministry for much useful information on the internal arrangements of the lever interlinks and spacers.
A temporary knob has been fitted to the Propeller pitch lever for effect; as we don't have one of the correct type...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229145[/ATTACH]
If anyone has a spare one lying around...(They were fitted to most pitch levers through the 40's and 50's); we would really appreciate the donation of one to the project.
The restoration has taken a total of four weeks... and much strong coffee, cursing, penetrating oil; sanding, filing and Elastoplast.
Here is the result...
Inboard Face.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229146[/ATTACH]
Outboard Face.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229147[/ATTACH]
Top Face.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229148[/ATTACH]
What a difference! Great work there.
Note to self.... must do the same for the Hornet throttle box. Its the only one left (I think) so have been nervous to take it apart.
By: windhover
- 13th June 2014 at 11:43Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thank you, gentlemen... just goes to show that in spite of what they say; if you are stubborn enough, you actually can polish a t*rd!
Dave; when you pull the hornet box apart; whatever else, make a sketch of the internal connections as the components come apart. Without Air Ministry's sketch we would have been truly stuffed!
By: windhover
- 13th June 2014 at 12:36Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The next game is really going to be a fun-filled experience.
We've done the bits that the pilot had to play with...now it's what he had to look at... the instrument panels.
We have a populated blind flying panel; albeit fitted with a rather asthmatic (for a Tiffie, anyway) 320mph ASI... (Bombers, Defiant, etc... not the 550mph correct one) and a few secondary gauges.
What we don't have, are the port and starboard supplementary panels, or the upper one that holds the dimmer switches for the gunsight, compass and cockpit lamps... but we can always fabricate those.
The real pain is going to be reverse engineering the flap indicator from photographs... they appear to be rarer than hen's teeth!
By: windhover
- 13th June 2014 at 20:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As far as I am aware; neither the Typhoon or later Tempest was fitted with an ammo counter... their jocks just blasted away until the cannon breeches slammed shut; then banged the throttle open and p*issed off into the wild blue yonder!
These counters could well have been fitted to the Mosquito and Beaufighter; and there are some suggestions that they were fitted to bomber turrets... the only one that springs to mind is the Avro Type 694 Lincoln which was sometimes fitted with a pair of 20mm Hispanos in the dorsal turret as an alternative to the more common 0.50 caliber M2 machine guns.
The Lincoln's maiden flight was on 9 June 1944; and the "A M & Crown" was replaced by the Broad Arrow in 1944, when the Ministry of Defense was created to oversee the armed forces of Great Britain; so the date is OK in this instance.
Hope this helps a little.
By: windhover
- 18th June 2014 at 20:04Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And Now... back to the usual suspects.
With the port and starboard side panels and the throttle quadrant complete; it's time for the easier bits. Next victim is the W/T Remote controller...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229332[/ATTACH]
This one is not as bad as it looks. If you ever wondered what was inside; it's this...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229333[/ATTACH]
And after a little de-rusting and rectification...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229334[/ATTACH]
Next Victim?... The Mk XI Oxygen Regulator. (1943 Vintage.) because the Mk VIIID is completely screwed!
By: mike currill
- 19th June 2014 at 04:58Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Am I right in thinking there was a typhoon fitted with a RR Griffon?
I think the machine you have in mind is the Tornado which, if memory serves me correctly was a Tempest airframe with a RR engine though I'm not sure what.
Posts: 319
By: windhover - 29th May 2014 at 09:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Control knobs
The ones on my panel are the originals; gently refinished (sanded) and polished. As for sources; I have yet to find anyone reproducing them; but this style of knob was fitted to almost every RAF kite right up to (and possibly beyond) the Shackletons.
If you do find any in-situ, be careful! They crack easily, and are secured through the lever with a bolt and a circular (Non-flatted) nut... sometimes brass; sometimes steel... that needs a special tool, like a thin screwdriver blade with the centre section removed; leaving two prongs which fit into two slots in the nut... to remove them... (and they are invariably rusted solid!)
Posts: 5,197
By: Rocketeer - 29th May 2014 at 10:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If I can get a sample (or have one already), I can do them in marble filled black resin which is the same weight and strength as Bakelite.
Posts: 1,928
By: Air Ministry - 29th May 2014 at 11:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I've had some success with casting them too.
The trouble is, for every knob there's a lever, or more correctly, for every lever there's a knob. In other words, the knobs may look outwardly similar but the thickness, width and shape of the levers vary, meaning that each knob is more or less unique to that lever. That can add up to a lot of moulds and much casting for a complex throttle box.
It's also very frustrating having built up over the years a selection of shiny new knobs that won't fit a single lever in the collection!
Posts: 319
By: windhover - 5th June 2014 at 13:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
An update on the Throttle Quadrant.
The castings are now pretty much finished. The inboard casting was repaired using Scotch-Weld 2216 Epoxy Adhesive and three small rectangles of 18swg aluminium on the inside face of the casting. The corrosion pitting was filled with Autocare Easy Sand Car Body Filler... cheap as chips; and actually gives a smoother finish than Plastic Padding and the like.
The outboard casting was similarly filled, and re-studded using sawn-down period 2BA long shank bolts; which were then re-threaded to take period Air Ministry Simmonds 2BA nuts... an unopened box of which we found in deep storage (A rusty old filing cabinet in the corner of the workshop.)
Thanks to Air Ministry for information on the guts of the Quadrant... the putting together of which will be the next bit of fun!.
Here it is in its coat of primers...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]228919[/ATTACH]
Inboard Face.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]228920[/ATTACH]
Outboard Face.
Looks a tad better than what we started with!
Posts: 319
By: windhover - 13th June 2014 at 10:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hawker Typhoon Throttle Quadrant.
The Throttle quadrant is now pretty well finished... thanks to Air Ministry for much useful information on the internal arrangements of the lever interlinks and spacers.
A temporary knob has been fitted to the Propeller pitch lever for effect; as we don't have one of the correct type...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229145[/ATTACH]
If anyone has a spare one lying around...(They were fitted to most pitch levers through the 40's and 50's); we would really appreciate the donation of one to the project.
The restoration has taken a total of four weeks... and much strong coffee, cursing, penetrating oil; sanding, filing and Elastoplast.
Here is the result...
Inboard Face.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229146[/ATTACH]
Outboard Face.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229147[/ATTACH]
Top Face.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229148[/ATTACH]
Posts: 1,494
By: TempestV - 13th June 2014 at 10:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What a difference! Great work there.
Note to self.... must do the same for the Hornet throttle box. Its the only one left (I think) so have been nervous to take it apart.
Posts: 1,970
By: 12jaguar - 13th June 2014 at 10:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes you must Mr Collins!
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 13th June 2014 at 10:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Superb work there. An inspiration indeed.
In fact, I just placed a Vampire throttle box on the bench to make a start on!
Posts: 1,205
By: Tin Triangle - 13th June 2014 at 10:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That is STUNNING, especially considering what you started with. Some amazing restoration going on there sir!
Posts: 319
By: windhover - 13th June 2014 at 11:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thank you, gentlemen... just goes to show that in spite of what they say; if you are stubborn enough, you actually can polish a t*rd!
Dave; when you pull the hornet box apart; whatever else, make a sketch of the internal connections as the components come apart. Without Air Ministry's sketch we would have been truly stuffed!
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 13th June 2014 at 11:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What's next on your list?
Posts: 319
By: windhover - 13th June 2014 at 12:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The next game is really going to be a fun-filled experience.
We've done the bits that the pilot had to play with...now it's what he had to look at... the instrument panels.
We have a populated blind flying panel; albeit fitted with a rather asthmatic (for a Tiffie, anyway) 320mph ASI... (Bombers, Defiant, etc... not the 550mph correct one) and a few secondary gauges.
What we don't have, are the port and starboard supplementary panels, or the upper one that holds the dimmer switches for the gunsight, compass and cockpit lamps... but we can always fabricate those.
The real pain is going to be reverse engineering the flap indicator from photographs... they appear to be rarer than hen's teeth!
Posts: 4,561
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 13th June 2014 at 16:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just a quick question - we have a 20mm ammo counter - usual bakelite AM dial in the Museum - said to be ex-Typhoon - did they have one fitted?
ATB
TT
Posts: 319
By: windhover - 13th June 2014 at 20:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As far as I am aware; neither the Typhoon or later Tempest was fitted with an ammo counter... their jocks just blasted away until the cannon breeches slammed shut; then banged the throttle open and p*issed off into the wild blue yonder!
These counters could well have been fitted to the Mosquito and Beaufighter; and there are some suggestions that they were fitted to bomber turrets... the only one that springs to mind is the Avro Type 694 Lincoln which was sometimes fitted with a pair of 20mm Hispanos in the dorsal turret as an alternative to the more common 0.50 caliber M2 machine guns.
The Lincoln's maiden flight was on 9 June 1944; and the "A M & Crown" was replaced by the Broad Arrow in 1944, when the Ministry of Defense was created to oversee the armed forces of Great Britain; so the date is OK in this instance.
Hope this helps a little.
Posts: 4,561
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 13th June 2014 at 21:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Brilliant, thanks windhover for such a detailled explanation - much obliged! ATB TT
Posts: 319
By: windhover - 18th June 2014 at 20:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And Now... back to the usual suspects.
With the port and starboard side panels and the throttle quadrant complete; it's time for the easier bits. Next victim is the W/T Remote controller...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229332[/ATTACH]
This one is not as bad as it looks. If you ever wondered what was inside; it's this...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229333[/ATTACH]
And after a little de-rusting and rectification...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229334[/ATTACH]
Next Victim?... The Mk XI Oxygen Regulator. (1943 Vintage.) because the Mk VIIID is completely screwed!
Posts: 5,197
By: Rocketeer - 19th June 2014 at 03:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The flap indicator is very similar to a Hurricane one
Posts: 8,505
By: mike currill - 19th June 2014 at 04:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the machine you have in mind is the Tornado which, if memory serves me correctly was a Tempest airframe with a RR engine though I'm not sure what.Posts: 636
By: HP111 - 19th June 2014 at 08:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Are you thinking of Tempest III and IV?
Posts: 98
By: Reckless Rat - 19th June 2014 at 17:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Tornado was powered by the RR Vulture X24-cylinder engine - and killed by the engine's cancellation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Tornado