Read the forum code of contact
By: - 6th August 2007 at 23:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ground attack variant? More clearance for ordinance by increasing the height? the earlier one had grayish/light blue camo (air supriroity??) this one drak green perhaps for strike role?
By: - 7th August 2007 at 02:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If that is indeed a real plane, I wonder how moving the wings affects the F-5's rather sprightly maeuvering performance?
By: - 7th August 2007 at 03:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Reminds me of the LCA somehow...
Anyway, what the F-5 really needs is not a new wing, but stronger engines.
By: - 7th August 2007 at 08:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I thought LCA as well....
I find it strange that the Iranians are talking about inducting both these types?:confused:
By: - 7th August 2007 at 12:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I thought LCA as well....Maybe it's the same type. After having enough experience with variable geometry Iranians could have invented variable position wing ;)I find it strange that the Iranians are talking about inducting both these types?:confused:
By: - 7th August 2007 at 16:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Here is what will be the next step of this development...
And this is what it will eventually lead to...
They are literally regurgitating Northrop's YF-17/F-18 development cycle here. Any Northrop engineers which have emigrated over the last few years?
By: - 7th August 2007 at 18:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I suspect what we are really seeing are aerodynamic research vehicles for gaining real-world experience in the actual design and manufacture of supersonic aircraft. This in turn could lead to an Iranian "Hornet" or somesuch..........but I think we are then talking at least a few years or more. Even if the avionics and engines are not going to be domestic, then integration of the various techs will take time (just like the Chinese aerospace industry). Foreign help could speed things up, but there is no substitute for actual experience.
In the final analysis, the aircraft are interesting but not militarily significant,
IMO. :diablo:
Cheers.......
By: - 7th August 2007 at 18:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Here is what will be the next step of this development...And this is what it will eventually lead to...
They are literally regurgitating Northrop's YF-17/F-18 development cycle here. Any Northrop engineers which have emigrated over the last few years?
Some might argue that that is an unfortunate lineage to be following.:D
By: - 7th August 2007 at 20:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Configurations also fit with Shafaqh trainer, M-ATF, I-2000...
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=42891
By: - 7th August 2007 at 20:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some might argue that that is an unfortunate lineage to be following.:D
Hey, they will need to replace their Tomcats at some point. They wouldn't be the first to compromise heavily to do so :D
By: - 7th August 2007 at 22:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hey, they will need to replace their Tomcats at some point. They wouldn't be the first to compromise heavily to do so :D
:D :D :D
By: - 8th August 2007 at 02:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hey, they will need to replace their Tomcats at some point. They wouldn't be the first to compromise heavily to do so :D
:D :D :D
PS: How many of you got a really bad stench with the SH pic. Sewer like stench :D :p
By: - 8th August 2007 at 03:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And they tend to buy up to 250 Su-30MK to replace their Tomcats.
By: - 8th August 2007 at 03:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And they tend to buy up to 250 Su-30MK to replace their Tomcats.
Probably because this is the best they can come up with :D
By: - 8th August 2007 at 03:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Here is what will be the next step of this development...And this is what it will eventually lead to...
They are literally regurgitating Northrop's YF-17/F-18 development cycle here. Any Northrop engineers which have emigrated over the last few years?
they're not even to the P530 Cobra yet (Actually they're not even to the F-20)
By: - 9th August 2007 at 09:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The main changes to make to the F-5s basic design would be:
- Bigger engines. This is the greatest priority, since it would have the greatest benefit. It shouldn't be too difficult to improve the J-85 engines, boosting thrust levels, and improving efficiency. A somewhat ambitious change might actually be to use the Williams FJ-44, with an afterburner, since it is pretty much the same size as the J-85.
- Add LERXs, which would help with lift, and generally improve handling.
- Use a slightly bigger wing, with stronger hardpoints, but more importantly, hold more fuel. The more fuel that can be carried internally, the less the need for drop tanks, so more weapons. It might not be too much of a stretch to even add conformal fuel tanks.
- Perhaps add height to the landing gear, and in particular, add a nosewheel oleo to improve takeoff performance (by changing angle of attack). A double extension for the main gear would improve wing clearance, speeding up re-arming etc...
All these changes are relatively simple, but would improve the basic design dramatically. Add in things like better radar (again, not too complex, since it has long been offered as an upgrade by various companies), new cockpit displays, a Russian helmet mounted sight, and you have a good fighter. It is not going to be a world beater, but it would at least give a reasonably good performing fighter. As part of a high-low mix with Mig-29s, and Su-24s and Su-25s for ground attack, it would give a good fighter fleet.
By: - 10th August 2007 at 02:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Northrop's original idea to upgrade the F-5 was to have two more powerful TFE-1042 engines. This idea ended up exactly being implemented on Taiwan's F-CK-1 fighter in all irony. That was before the GE-404 idea that led to the Tigershark.
The F-5E does have a LERX, albeit an early one at that. Jack Northrop was well ahead of everyone else when he started to incorporate these on the T-38 Talons. He also likes putting intakes above the LERX or wings, a tradition carried on to the YF-23 and the B-2.
By: - 10th August 2007 at 11:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The F-5E does have a LERX, albeit an early one at that. Jack Northrop was well ahead of everyone else when he started to incorporate these on the T-38 Talons.
The T-38 doesn't have LERXes.
The F-5 series (both A and E) do.
By: - 10th August 2007 at 13:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The first of the two photos is the previously discussed twin tailed F-5, which appears to be no more than a twin tail conversion. The second one is more of a change, with the mid mounted wing, and LERXs. If we are generous, however, we could assume one of two things:
- The two designs may be merged, creating a twin tailed, mid winged fighter. This, with better engines, could be a good fighter, at least by '70s technology standards!
- The two are technology demonstrators, to prove technology for a new design, even if it is based on F-5 technology. Maybe even a single J-79 engined F-5 derivative, a la F-20 (which of course used the F-404, but the Iranians don't have them...). An F-5 derivative with a J79 would have a lot more thrust, and with a bigger wing, root extensions, and better man machine interface, along with a new radar, would be an excellent little fighter.
However, whatever you do with a basic F-5, it will always be a lightweight fighter, which is no bad thing, but it isn't going to be a world beater!
By: - 11th August 2007 at 05:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
He also likes putting intakes above the LERX or wings, a tradition carried on to the YF-23 and the B-2.
Dude, the only way a YF-23 has intakes above the wings is if it's flying inverted :D
Posts: 5,707
By: sealordlawrence - 6th August 2007 at 22:32 - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 11:40
The picture of the new one was first posted by Kusch in an older thread but I felt that it deserved a new one, sorry if anybody disagrees. The original new one was just an F-5 with twin vertical tail surfaces, the new one is just an F-5 with a mid mounted wing and what seem to me to be new air intakes. They have still not done what seems to be the obvious thing to me and relocated the cannon to make more room for a larger radar and other avionics. This new version appears to be more 'advanced' than the earlier one I have included pictures of both. I just hope it is not a PS?:confused: