By: Deino
- 11th January 2011 at 10:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So is there a second prototype or not?
Not sure if there are really already two prototypes. All I got from a very "reliable" source from China is that this prototype has been re-engined for the first flight with completely new indigenious engines. I wait for more info and at least so far had no timne to check, when each picture appeared, when we first had the "feeling" of the different engine and if we got any pictures of the AL-31FN-powered one since then.
More later...
New
By: Anonymous
- 11th January 2011 at 10:27Permalink- Edited 22nd October 2019 at 22:31
By: haavarla
- 11th January 2011 at 10:35Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Exciting times.:)
Congratulation China.
One thing is certain, there is no space to store fuel in eighter the wings or the stabz, so i'll guess all is stored in the body airframe.
Wonder how much volume it have and where the internal tanks are installed?
By: mrmalaya
- 11th January 2011 at 10:39Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well done indeed.
So when will the RAF be buying some? :diablo::D
yep that's what i said:D
except i am firmly in the "this is a precursor to the real thing" camp.
I reckon there is no way they would have released the aircraft to the world like this if they weren't already very sure that it would fly and that it wouldn't give away too much.
By: KYL
- 11th January 2011 at 10:43Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://inews.mingpao.com/htm/Inews/20110111/ca21755c.htm
Dr.Gates said that Hu confirmed the maiden flight of J20 and stressed that the test flight is pre-scheduled and isn't intentionally target him.
蓋茨:胡錦濤證殲20試飛 (17:51)
美國國防部長蓋茨周五與中國國家主席胡錦濤會談後表示，胡錦濤證實了殲-20隱形戰鬥機試飛。
BEIJING—Images and witness accounts posted online Tuesday appeared to show that China's stealth fighter prototype had made its first test flight, even as Robert Gates, the U.S. Defense Secretary who has downplayed China's stealth aircraft capability, was meeting Chinese civilian leaders in Beijing.
By: plawolf
- 11th January 2011 at 10:44Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
One thing is certain, there is no space to store fuel in eighter the wings or the stabz, so i'll guess all is stored in the body airframe.
Wonder how much volume it have and where the internal tanks are installed?
Why not the wings? The vertical stabilizers I would agree with, but the wings are not that thin, and it would be strange to say the least to not use that space for fuel storage.
By: plawolf
- 11th January 2011 at 10:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
yep that's what i said:D
except i am firmly in the "this is a precursor to the real thing" camp.
I reckon there is no way they would have released the aircraft to the world like this if they weren't already very sure that it would fly and that it wouldn't give away too much.
Way too much face to be lost in both cases!
still this aircraft looks great from underneath !
The change in engines is quite interesting if that is indeed what happened.
It would be pretty unprecedented for a prototype to have its engines changed to a different design days before the first flight.
Given how cautious the Chinese have always been, it would also be a major break with the norm to use a relatively unproven domestic engine for a first flight test, especially one so open!
I would suggest that this is the first flight with a domestic engine. It is very likely that the prototype has already flown with AL31s prior to this.
By: insomnia.delhi
- 11th January 2011 at 11:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://inews.mingpao.com/htm/Inews/20110111/ca21755c.htm
Dr.Gates said that Hu confirmed the maiden flight of J20 and stressed that the test flight is pre-scheduled and isn't intentionally target him.
蓋茨:胡錦濤證殲20試飛 (17:51)
美國國防部長蓋茨周五與中國國家主席胡錦濤會談後表示，胡錦濤證實了殲-20隱形戰鬥機試飛。
蓋茨表示，胡錦濤向他提到殲-20試飛是早已安排，並非針對他今次訪問。
just accidentally targeting him, wink wink..
The change in engines is quite interesting if that is indeed what happened.
It would be pretty unprecedented for a prototype to have its engines changed to a different design days before the first flight.
Given how cautious the Chinese have always been, it would also be a major break with the norm to use a relatively unproven domestic engine for a first flight test, especially one so open!
I would suggest that this is the first flight with a domestic engine. It is very likely that the prototype has already flown with AL31s prior to this.
a very logical statement, there really is no other reason that comes to mind.
By: talltower
- 11th January 2011 at 11:37Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Gates: China's Hu confirms stealth jet test-flight
Article excerpt from Reuters
Gates: China's Hu confirms stealth jet test-flight
Chinese President Hu Jintao confirmed the country had on Tuesday conducted its first test-flight of a stealth fighter jet, which could narrow the nation's military gap with the United States, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said after talks with Hu.
Gates said Hu told him that the maiden test-flight of the advanced J-20 fighter jet prototype was not timed to coincide with Gates's visit and had been planned earlier.
"I asked President Hu about it directly, and he said that the test had absolutely nothing to do with my visit and had been a pre-planned test. And that's where we left it," Gates told reporters.
Beforehand, the test-flight of the fighter jet, which could potentially evade detection by foes, in the southwest Chinese city of Chengdu had been widely reported on Chinese Internet blogs and online news sites.
China's stealth fighter makes its maiden test flight
China's radder evasive stealth fighter made its maiden test flight on Tuesday, making the country only the second nation after US to test such cutting edge technology.
The aircraft called J-20 took off from an airstrip at Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute just before 1300 hours and flew for about 20 minutes, the Wall Street Journal reported quoting eye witnesses.
The test flight came as US Defence Secretary Robert Gates started the second day of his official visit to the country and was scheduled to meet President Hu Jintao. Gates has been dismissive of the Chinese arms build up and has said that development of stealth technology by China poses no threat to Washington.
Images and witness accounts were posted online of the twin engine plane making its epic maiden flight and on the ground surrounded by men in army overcoats, the paper said, adding that normally secretive People's Army made no attempt to hide or remove the photos from the internet.
By: shadowpuppet
- 11th January 2011 at 11:45Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Congrats China - the rest of the world just got served.
Part of me feels like this bird must have been flying already months ago - such is the uncharacteristically cavalier way it's been displayed to the world, but it doesn't matter one way or another.
This is the ultimate expression of China's modernisation - and the way it's gone from paper nothing, to flight - with a minimum of nonsense and fuss, well - it's a lesson to the rest of the world.
I believe there will be temporary setbacks going forward, but nothing can stop the march of Chinese industrial and technical might.
Undoubtedly certain folk here will poo-poo the ability of China to develop sensors and technology on a par with Western analogues - but, really they're denying the inevitable march towards parity and.. beyond.
This is a rude awakening for every military program in the West, the delays, the corruption, the finger pointing towards one party or another, the political meandering to get X built in Y Country/State to satisfy voters in order that Z politician gets re-elected. In turn meaning the military goes without necessary equipment, costs skyrocket and when the damn thing is delivered, well, it's been so delayed and forced so overbudget - it's already outmoded and there's no money left in the kitty to bring it up to date. So then mothball half the fleet and modernise the other half 20 years later.
I expect hundreds of stealth aircraft to be in the inventory of the Chinese Air Force by 2025. Minimum of fuss. It'll just be done.
By: Bluewings
- 11th January 2011 at 12:22Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Congratulations to China :)
This jet is "bizarre" , very strangely designed .
It is clear that the Chinese have their way ...:cool:
Witnesses say that it is very stable in flight and the landing was very smooth .
The fact that they used domestic engines for the first flight tells us about how much they trust their own stuff .
They learn fast , real fast .
I still find the overall design rather ... strange . I would like to see its manoeuvrability in subsonic regimes and its ability at dogfighting ... :rolleyes:
By: Pinko
- 11th January 2011 at 12:22Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I believe I can fly.... :D:cool::cool:
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Posts: 549
By: Rookh
- 11th January 2011 at 12:29Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Congratulations to China :)
This jet is "bizarre" , very strangely designed .
It is clear that the Chinese have their way ...:cool:
Witnesses say that it is very stable in flight and the landing was very smooth .
The fact that they used domestic engines for the first flight tells us about how much they trust their own stuff .
They learn fast , real fast .
I still find the overall design rather ... strange . I would like to see its manoeuvrability in subsonic regimes and its ability at dogfighting ... :rolleyes:
Agree with you regarding the unique design. It looks like one of those designs which shouldn't really be able to fly...but it does somehow :)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first flying twin enginned, twin fin, delta-canard fighter? Did the Mig 1.44 ever fly?
By: Bluewings
- 11th January 2011 at 12:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Shadowpuppet :
This is a rude awakening for every military program in the West, the delays, the corruption, the finger pointing towards one party or another, the political meandering to get X built in Y Country/State to satisfy voters in order that Z politician gets re-elected. In turn meaning the military goes without necessary equipment, costs skyrocket and when the damn thing is delivered, well, it's been so delayed and forced so overbudget - it's already outmoded and there's no money left in the kitty to bring it up to date. So then mothball half the fleet and modernise the other half 20 years later.
True and well said .
I expect hundreds of stealth aircraft to be in the inventory of the Chinese Air Force by 2025. Minimum of fuss. It'll just be done.
We think alike . By 2025 , the few F-22s based at Guam will get sweaty at each take-off . :D
By: jbritchford
- 11th January 2011 at 12:35Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Congrats China - the rest of the world just got served.
Part of me feels like this bird must have been flying already months ago - such is the uncharacteristically cavalier way it's been displayed to the world, but it doesn't matter one way or another.
This is the ultimate expression of China's modernisation - and the way it's gone from paper nothing, to flight - with a minimum of nonsense and fuss, well - it's a lesson to the rest of the world.
Of course, we don't know how long this design has taken, the problems encountered, if it has any flaws that are simply not mentioned, or if it is nothing more than a paper tiger :rolleyes:
I'm not saying this is necessarily true, China can produce as good hardware as anywhere else, but without access to all the information it's inappropriate to declare it a triumphal success.
Posts: 3,442
By: J-20 Hotdog - 11th January 2011 at 10:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
i will totally support a J-20 vs typhoon thread when you create one! :)
on a separate note..
all we need now are clear pictures of the weapons bays. we were able to see those on the Pak-fa on the first day.
Posts: 805
By: Multirole - 11th January 2011 at 10:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So is there a second prototype or not?
Posts: 4,082
By: Deino - 11th January 2011 at 10:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not sure if there are really already two prototypes. All I got from a very "reliable" source from China is that this prototype has been re-engined for the first flight with completely new indigenious engines. I wait for more info and at least so far had no timne to check, when each picture appeared, when we first had the "feeling" of the different engine and if we got any pictures of the AL-31FN-powered one since then.
More later...
By: Anonymous - 11th January 2011 at 10:27 Permalink - Edited 22nd October 2019 at 22:31
Nice! Congrats to the people at CAC!
Posts: 6,441
By: haavarla - 11th January 2011 at 10:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Exciting times.:)
Congratulation China.
One thing is certain, there is no space to store fuel in eighter the wings or the stabz, so i'll guess all is stored in the body airframe.
Wonder how much volume it have and where the internal tanks are installed?
Posts: 4,619
By: mrmalaya - 11th January 2011 at 10:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
yep that's what i said:D
except i am firmly in the "this is a precursor to the real thing" camp.
I reckon there is no way they would have released the aircraft to the world like this if they weren't already very sure that it would fly and that it wouldn't give away too much.
Way too much face to be lost in both cases!
still this aircraft looks great from underneath !
Posts: 122
By: KYL - 11th January 2011 at 10:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://inews.mingpao.com/htm/Inews/20110111/ca21755c.htm
Dr.Gates said that Hu confirmed the maiden flight of J20 and stressed that the test flight is pre-scheduled and isn't intentionally target him.
蓋茨:胡錦濤證殲20試飛 (17:51)
美國國防部長蓋茨周五與中國國家主席胡錦濤會談後表示，胡錦濤證實了殲-20隱形戰鬥機試飛。
蓋茨表示，胡錦濤向他提到殲-20試飛是早已安排，並非針對他今次訪問。
Posts: 122
By: KYL - 11th January 2011 at 10:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704428004576075042571461586.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond
By JEREMY PAGE
BEIJING—Images and witness accounts posted online Tuesday appeared to show that China's stealth fighter prototype had made its first test flight, even as Robert Gates, the U.S. Defense Secretary who has downplayed China's stealth aircraft capability, was meeting Chinese civilian leaders in Beijing.
Posts: 3,857
By: plawolf - 11th January 2011 at 10:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why not the wings? The vertical stabilizers I would agree with, but the wings are not that thin, and it would be strange to say the least to not use that space for fuel storage.
Posts: 122
By: KYL - 11th January 2011 at 10:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
:cool:
Posts: 3,857
By: plawolf - 11th January 2011 at 10:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The change in engines is quite interesting if that is indeed what happened.
It would be pretty unprecedented for a prototype to have its engines changed to a different design days before the first flight.
Given how cautious the Chinese have always been, it would also be a major break with the norm to use a relatively unproven domestic engine for a first flight test, especially one so open!
I would suggest that this is the first flight with a domestic engine. It is very likely that the prototype has already flown with AL31s prior to this.
Posts: 411
By: insomnia.delhi - 11th January 2011 at 11:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
just accidentally targeting him, wink wink..
a very logical statement, there really is no other reason that comes to mind.
Posts: 499
By: LoofahBoy - 11th January 2011 at 11:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is anyone else getting a Viggen vibe here?
Posts: 493
By: talltower - 11th January 2011 at 11:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Gates: China's Hu confirms stealth jet test-flight
Article excerpt from Reuters
Gates: China's Hu confirms stealth jet test-flight
Chinese President Hu Jintao confirmed the country had on Tuesday conducted its first test-flight of a stealth fighter jet, which could narrow the nation's military gap with the United States, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said after talks with Hu.
Gates said Hu told him that the maiden test-flight of the advanced J-20 fighter jet prototype was not timed to coincide with Gates's visit and had been planned earlier.
"I asked President Hu about it directly, and he said that the test had absolutely nothing to do with my visit and had been a pre-planned test. And that's where we left it," Gates told reporters.
Beforehand, the test-flight of the fighter jet, which could potentially evade detection by foes, in the southwest Chinese city of Chengdu had been widely reported on Chinese Internet blogs and online news sites.
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70A19B20110111?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a49:g43:r3:c0.058824:b40889078:z0
Article excerpt from the Times of India
China's stealth fighter makes its maiden test flight
China's radder evasive stealth fighter made its maiden test flight on Tuesday, making the country only the second nation after US to test such cutting edge technology.
The aircraft called J-20 took off from an airstrip at Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute just before 1300 hours and flew for about 20 minutes, the Wall Street Journal reported quoting eye witnesses.
The test flight came as US Defence Secretary Robert Gates started the second day of his official visit to the country and was scheduled to meet President Hu Jintao. Gates has been dismissive of the Chinese arms build up and has said that development of stealth technology by China poses no threat to Washington.
Images and witness accounts were posted online of the twin engine plane making its epic maiden flight and on the ground surrounded by men in army overcoats, the paper said, adding that normally secretive People's Army made no attempt to hide or remove the photos from the internet.
Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/Chinas-stealth-fighter-makes-its-maiden-test-flight/articleshow/7259376.cms
Posts: 156
By: shadowpuppet - 11th January 2011 at 11:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Congrats China - the rest of the world just got served.
Part of me feels like this bird must have been flying already months ago - such is the uncharacteristically cavalier way it's been displayed to the world, but it doesn't matter one way or another.
This is the ultimate expression of China's modernisation - and the way it's gone from paper nothing, to flight - with a minimum of nonsense and fuss, well - it's a lesson to the rest of the world.
I believe there will be temporary setbacks going forward, but nothing can stop the march of Chinese industrial and technical might.
Undoubtedly certain folk here will poo-poo the ability of China to develop sensors and technology on a par with Western analogues - but, really they're denying the inevitable march towards parity and.. beyond.
This is a rude awakening for every military program in the West, the delays, the corruption, the finger pointing towards one party or another, the political meandering to get X built in Y Country/State to satisfy voters in order that Z politician gets re-elected. In turn meaning the military goes without necessary equipment, costs skyrocket and when the damn thing is delivered, well, it's been so delayed and forced so overbudget - it's already outmoded and there's no money left in the kitty to bring it up to date. So then mothball half the fleet and modernise the other half 20 years later.
I expect hundreds of stealth aircraft to be in the inventory of the Chinese Air Force by 2025. Minimum of fuss. It'll just be done.
Congrats China.
Posts: 1,040
By: Bluewings - 11th January 2011 at 12:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Congratulations to China :)
This jet is "bizarre" , very strangely designed .
It is clear that the Chinese have their way ...:cool:
Witnesses say that it is very stable in flight and the landing was very smooth .
The fact that they used domestic engines for the first flight tells us about how much they trust their own stuff .
They learn fast , real fast .
I still find the overall design rather ... strange . I would like to see its manoeuvrability in subsonic regimes and its ability at dogfighting ... :rolleyes:
Cheers .
Posts: 1,291
By: Pinko - 11th January 2011 at 12:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I believe I can fly.... :D:cool::cool:
Posts: 549
By: Rookh - 11th January 2011 at 12:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Agree with you regarding the unique design. It looks like one of those designs which shouldn't really be able to fly...but it does somehow :)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first flying twin enginned, twin fin, delta-canard fighter? Did the Mig 1.44 ever fly?
Posts: 1,040
By: Bluewings - 11th January 2011 at 12:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Shadowpuppet :
True and well said .
We think alike . By 2025 , the few F-22s based at Guam will get sweaty at each take-off . :D
Cheers .
Posts: 1,518
By: jbritchford - 11th January 2011 at 12:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Of course, we don't know how long this design has taken, the problems encountered, if it has any flaws that are simply not mentioned, or if it is nothing more than a paper tiger :rolleyes:
I'm not saying this is necessarily true, China can produce as good hardware as anywhere else, but without access to all the information it's inappropriate to declare it a triumphal success.
Yet.