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By: - 12th July 2010 at 05:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
some more pics
By: - 12th July 2010 at 06:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I wish this multi-role variant was built rather than that ugly and expensive su-25 ;)
By: - 12th July 2010 at 07:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
IMHO the Chinese J-8II is but a modernized Su-15. There are quite a few similarities once you get past the more readily discernible, dissimilar features. I find it difficult to believe the Chinese made a leap from the J-8I to the J-8II without stealing from the Su-15's basic layout.
By: - 12th July 2010 at 11:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Classic single-mission Soviet aircraft of the 1960ies era. The better solution to the interception problem than the MiG-25, as it was more affordable. The aircraft itself wasn't that fine, with atrocious handling and bad safety record. Suchoi actually needed to call it a Suchoi 9 version initially to get the funding.
I think it didn't have any potential.
By: - 12th July 2010 at 12:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It also shot down a few airliners jammed with passengers; as well as colliding with a CL-44 over the Soviet Union in 1981. A Su-15 shot down the KAL Boeing 747 over Sakhalin in 1983. A classic, uncompromised PVO interceptor of the 1960s, like Schorch said, Its probably somewhere between the F-106 and EE Lightning in performance.
By: - 12th July 2010 at 13:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You mean the PVO Su-15TM Flagon piloted by Major Gennady Osipovich? Yeah, that's the one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfcGur0Vql4
By: - 12th July 2010 at 13:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
aesthetically a magnificent machine!!! Damn fast in a straight line dash too!
By: - 12th July 2010 at 15:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
nice thread nastle, beautiful aircraft.
By: - 12th July 2010 at 15:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I wish this multi-role variant was built rather than that ugly and expensive su-25 ;)
Sorry Nastle, but did you say expensive Su-25:eek:
Regards
Pioneer
By: - 12th July 2010 at 16:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Also the Flagon filled a niche for the PVO that nothing else could at the time, that was the Northern Strategic District for arctic interception, the most likely course for American bombers. As I understand it, whilst it had a similar range to the Foxbat subsonic, it had better supersonic range and was optimised for arctic operations (although was operated elsewhere in very small numbers).
The cruise speed for early versions is about 1.4 Mach and 1.6 Mach for later series, with a top speed approaching 2.2 Mach or about the same as a top line MiG-21 with a much bigger radar set and heavy missile load (it should, in layout it's similar to a twin engine version of a late series MiG-21, like a big brother).
According to reports among pilots of the day, compared obviously to aircraft like the MiG-21 and Foxbat it is regarded as a popular model with very good handling characteristics.
When I think of Su-15 interceptors I think of arctic interceptions in a barren landscape, with few airfields handy and a high requirement of low maintenance and robust operation.
By: - 12th July 2010 at 16:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
aesthetically a magnificent machine!!! Damn fast in a straight line dash too!
I think its overall performance is pretty much comparable to F-106 of the USAF.
One thing that really hunted the Suchoi 15 was its crappy range. Still better than any previous Suchoi interceptor, but the short legs were something that prevented the aircraft from loitering for prolonged periods.
By: - 12th July 2010 at 16:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The cruise speed for early versions is about 1.4 Mach and 1.6 Mach for later series, with a top speed approaching 2.2 Mach or about the same as a top line MiG-21 with a much bigger radar set and heavy missile load (it should, in layout it's similar to a twin engine version of a late series MiG-21, like a big brother).
Cruise at supersonic speeds was something the Suchoi 15 could only dream off (like nearly all aircraft of that era). Subsonic LoD was bad, supersonic LoD was a catastrophe. Engine consume vast amounts of fuel, and a mission with a supersonic dash normally ends 300nm behind the base's fence. As target acquisition and attack without ground radar support was rather pointless, there was no need to fly that far off the base.
By: - 12th July 2010 at 19:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry Nastle, but did you say expensive Su-25:eek:Regards
Pioneer
:o haha you got me here !
to tell u the truth, I just hate that plane su-25 so much that I would say anything to malign it.:diablo:
By: - 12th July 2010 at 19:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
nice thread nastle, beautiful aircraft.
Thanks !
I wish the Su-25 designation was given to the Su-19M and it was produced as a multirole fighter.It would be a huge success in the third world export market where it would be roughly similar to a Mirage F1 and better than early model Kfirs.
By: - 13th July 2010 at 02:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
IMHO the Chinese J-8II is but a modernized Su-15. There are quite a few similarities once you get past the more readily discernible, dissimilar features. I find it difficult to believe the Chinese made a leap from the J-8I to the J-8II without stealing from the Su-15's basic layout.
Errrr........no....
The J-8II is a J-8I with MiG-23 style nose and intakes
You have to register to view this page following link from CDF :
China's Egyptian AF Mig-23 - Link
Another Link - Link
By: - 13th July 2010 at 08:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Errrr........no....The J-8II is a J-8I with MiG-23 style nose and intakes
You have to register to view this page following link from CDF :
China's Egyptian AF Mig-23 - Link
Another Link - Link
The Suchoi 15 and the J-8 both came the same way: classic delta with nose intake, but widened fuselage for second engine and finally the ventral intake due to the need for a radar. Both not very sophisticated.
By: - 13th July 2010 at 09:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Beautiful aircraft!:)
In the early 80's there was an incident over the Baltic sea involving a Su-15 and a Viggen.
During this incident the Su-15 which was loaded with missiles decided to move behind the Viggen and locked on it. The Viggen pilot immediately took evasive action. During a sharp high speed pull-up the Su-15 wasn't able to follow and crashed into the sea.
This incident was covered in several swedish news papers.
By: - 13th July 2010 at 11:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cruise at supersonic speeds was something the Suchoi 15 could only dream off (like nearly all aircraft of that era). Subsonic LoD was bad, supersonic LoD was a catastrophe. Engine consume vast amounts of fuel, and a mission with a supersonic dash normally ends 300nm behind the base's fence. As target acquisition and attack without ground radar support was rather pointless, there was no need to fly that far off the base.
A number of fairly clean aircraft of the 60s-70s can cruise supersonic, Foxbat and Flagon among them, it's listed in published specifications.
You're talking about Phantoms, yeah? They've got a subsonic max cruise. The Flagon (and Foxbat) are listed in published specifications with max cruise exceeding 1500km/h and faster. The Phantom you'll find has a max cruise in the transonic range, it'll only dash supersonic.
The Phantom has a lot of excess thrust for great power down in thick air, but at higher altitudes aerodynamically cleaner aircraft like the MiG-21 encountered in Vietnam were stated by Phantom pilots as much quicker. You wouldn't notice this on paper but it's hidden away in the cruise performance, Phantom has a great dash but the needlelike Soviet aircraft are much cleaner.
Aircraft like the Foxbat and Flagon have both an economy cruise and a supersonic cruise at altitude. The normal range is reduced by around 30% for supersonic cruise. Many other aircraft cannot sustain a supersonic cruise but must dash-accelerate supersonic at maximum afterburner, top out and then decelerate subsonic when throttle is reduced, which would be aircraft like the Phantom or Tu-22 Blinder. Aircraft that can supersonic cruise can accelerate supersonic then with careful throttle management hold an intermediate supersonic speed for extended periods. The Hornet can maintain supersonic flight at 75% power for example (lightly loaded).
The combat radius of the early Flagon in interceptor configuration, internal fuel only is about 375km with an average speed following the climb of some 1500km/h. It's about 400km and 1700km/h for the later versions. This isn't just past the runway, and would allow for a very short maximum speed dash during the contact phase (ca. 850-930km total range supersonic).
By comparison a Phantom would intercept at transonic speed, include a short supersonic dash to the target and engage transonic at altitude. Hence Phantom pilots say at higher altitudes the newer Russian aircraft were quicker and very dangerous. The F-15 was designed to deal not just with the Foxbat but just as importantly the MiG-21 future variants and derivatives, based on Vietnam experience with this aircraft (which was more concrete than any Foxbat intel at the time).
As such Schorsch, the restrictions you're talking about are really much more relevant to the Phantom or similar aircraft, not so much the needlelike or very high thrust hotrods like the Fishbed, Flagon, Foxbat, or even several Century series fighters of the USAF. The F-104 is so clean it can reach over 1400km/h at sea level, it would have no problem at all maintaining supersonic speed at altitude under intermediate power.
By: - 13th July 2010 at 12:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think he's more concerned with the term 'cruise'. The operational procedures may have called for a supersonic flight, but the Su-15 did not 'cruise' by the strict sense of the term. It was meant to fly at high altitudes and high speeds to intercept nuclear bombers, so fuel economy was not a big concern. Realistically the turbojets of the Su-15 probably didn't conserve too much fuel if they were running subsonic and in the middle altitudes, but they would definitely cruise under those conditions for best range.
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By: nastle - 12th July 2010 at 05:46 - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 11:40
Any fans of this delta winged interceptor here ?
I once built a model of this plane with my brother but we modified it, we read somewhere that it was called "poor man's phantom" so we made into a multi-role fighter-bomber
Later we found out that a similar version was planned bu never built called Su-19 !
Its sad that this fine aircraft didnt get any good publicity, it seems like it had a lot of potential but was tied down as a single mission plane and overshadowed by other interceptors in PVO.