By: charliehunt
- 29th October 2012 at 17:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry indeed! I spent many hours shuttling in Tridents between Heathrow and Scotland in the seventies and enjoyed a slow walk through the DAS aircraft at Duxford earlier this month.
By: longshot
- 29th October 2012 at 17:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the Tridents were disposed of around 1982-1984 as the 737s and 757s arrived
In the 60s and early 70s Argonaut G-ALHJ was over by Perry Oaks as the fire-trainer....wasn't it replaced by a Comet? http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1045471/
Not the fire dump, but a sorry sight though. 1979-ish
By: connie freak
- 30th October 2012 at 08:44Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A rough timeline of the LAP ground enclosures
1947? ground enclosure between tower and north taxiway opened.....separate passengers friends enclosure as noted in the photo
1953 (Coronation year) 'overspill' enclosure open between the north taxiway and runway 28R(closed for tunnelling) and reached by marshalled walking across the live taxiway!
1954?-1958? Public ground enclosure moved to Central area reached by tunnel, passengers friends enclosure moved slightly westwards opposite the Green Dragon canteen (Queens Building roof gardens opened 1955?) Post 1959....Spotters were cleared out of the passengers friends enclosure regularly (and retreated to the Green Dragon which I think was also occasionally purged of spotters?) but plenty of photos were taken from there like Laurence's PIA L1049H
And the shot of the strat is taken from that short lived enclosure between the taxiway and the runway ! But still with deluxe railings and enamelled metal chairs.
19
I don't think the Passengers & Friends area ever moved westwards, not even a tad as I recall. It appears they moved the flagpole eastwards to be opposite HRH's VIP building. Here are another couple of shots from then. Taken during the tunnelling era. Car park now in place. And a curious waiving area right down by the ramp. I remember well the waiving area was always at the end of the road from the Martini roundabout (with the bogs hidden inside the advertisement hoardings). This was right up to the end of passenger ops there.
By: connie freak
- 30th October 2012 at 09:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Having got the 2 similar view photos of the viewing areas together in my photo file it becomes apparent that the waiving area for friends was reduced in width by about 12 foot and extended out towards the taxiway to fall in line with the car park (formerly the public viewing area). It can also be seen that the road was widened between the ramp (where Alcock & Brown rested) and the waiving base.
So, Longshot, you were quite right as effectively this appeared to be a slight move westwards.
By: longshot
- 30th October 2012 at 13:34Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do you have any photos of the Green Dragon Canteen (inside or outside)? There was an interior photo in Air Pictorial a few years ago which didn't look the way I remember it(crowded, steamy, noisy?)
I'm not 100% on the start/finish dates of 1954-1958 for the Central Ground Enclosure. There are photos from the various ground enclosures in Charles Woodley's Heathrow book and in David Carter and David Whitworth's flickr photo collections online
Having got the 2 similar view photos of the viewing areas together in my photo file it becomes apparent that the waiving area for friends was reduced in width by about 12 foot and extended out towards the taxiway to fall in line with the car park (formerly the public viewing area). It can also be seen that the road was widened between the ramp (where Alcock & Brown rested) and the waiving base.
So, Longshot, you were quite right as effectively this appeared to be a slight move westwards.
By: connie freak
- 3rd November 2012 at 10:30Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nice pics!
Thanks. The Fred Olsen C-46 was on a passenger charter I think, hence parked up in Central. I never saw a Transair viscount on that stand before. Typical Autumn rain, but it never dampened my enthusiasm. Think I saw a few (Transairs) opposite on the other side of the ramp. B & W shot from the Queens shows the early tempory and very full car park, a scene I remember well along with routes 140 and 81B RT's. Colour postcard shows what that car park became, the all new term 1. Evolution in progress and the start of restricted viewing.
By: pagen01
- 3rd November 2012 at 13:28Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think Skyways used them until the early 1960s, and Britavia until 1959 the aircraft went to silver City who used them into the very early 1960s as well.
Airwork and Air Safaris were other post BOAC operators.
By: connie freak
- 4th November 2012 at 09:09Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do you have any photos of the Green Dragon Canteen (inside or outside)? There was an interior photo in Air Pictorial a few years ago which didn't look the way I remember it(crowded, steamy, noisy?)
I'm not 100% on the start/finish dates of 1954-1958 for the Central Ground Enclosure. There are photos from the various ground enclosures in Charles Woodley's Heathrow book and in David Carter and David Whitworth's flickr photo collections online
I do remember the Green Dragon well. Very high ceilings, tubular steel section chairs and tables (with formica tops). The back entrance was through a passageway and the PanAm guys would park their tugs there when having breakfast. Us spotters would hang out by that entrance so we could pop in for a tea or watch the approach and arrivals at our leisure. The front entrance was double swing doors with antrance lobby, and once outside therew as a view of the Martini roundabout and the main entrance to the airport from the A4. I seem to remember the counter was L shaped and had railings to ensure that you formed a queue.
I had a photo sent to me by dennis Judd (former spotter) of the inside of the dragon, but it was a low concrete section building like the ones attached to the old tower ( became police station). So was there a prvious Green dragon building to the final big one ?
Am trying to attach an aerial pic of the building. Behind the big black freight shed there is a building with 2 pitched roofs, white walls with windows. This is the "Dragon" that I used. I don't remember if all that building or just half of it was the cafe. All of it I think. I used to hang out on the grass between the road and the building by the side of the black shed. A lot of the grass was torn up and concreted for parking for the "Dragon".
I had a holiday job in there for a few weeks back in summer '61. Washing up and table clearing. I was in there having a cuppa with about 6 other spotters and a copper called George turfed us out.I stayed defiantly behind as I was an airport worker. George walked me down to the police station where he made me promise not to go in there again. Of course I didn't go in there again until the next day and it all blew over. That was the only time I was asked to leave there. George was skinny, red faced obnoxious sod with nothing better to do !
By: longshot
- 4th November 2012 at 23:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There was a cafe with a juke-box which I visited on the opposite side of the Bath Rd from the Northside terminal around 1957 which I have been told was also called the Green Dragon so perhaps the business moved over to the building by the control tower about 1958/1959. I have read of a cafe near the terminal called Ben's but don't know if it was inside or outside the airfield or if it was just another name for the Green Dragon.
I remember the main doorway to the 'Dragon' but like you mainly used the handy 'back-door'...I remember playing a lot of chess on miniature boards between spotting sessions around 1960/1961
Posts: 70
By: connie freak - 29th October 2012 at 17:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not the fire dump, but a sorry sight though. 1979-ish
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 29th October 2012 at 17:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry indeed! I spent many hours shuttling in Tridents between Heathrow and Scotland in the seventies and enjoyed a slow walk through the DAS aircraft at Duxford earlier this month.
Posts: 1,707
By: longshot - 29th October 2012 at 17:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the Tridents were disposed of around 1982-1984 as the 737s and 757s arrived
In the 60s and early 70s Argonaut G-ALHJ was over by Perry Oaks as the fire-trainer....wasn't it replaced by a Comet?
http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1045471/
Posts: 70
By: connie freak - 30th October 2012 at 08:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't think the Passengers & Friends area ever moved westwards, not even a tad as I recall. It appears they moved the flagpole eastwards to be opposite HRH's VIP building. Here are another couple of shots from then. Taken during the tunnelling era. Car park now in place. And a curious waiving area right down by the ramp. I remember well the waiving area was always at the end of the road from the Martini roundabout (with the bogs hidden inside the advertisement hoardings). This was right up to the end of passenger ops there.
Posts: 70
By: connie freak - 30th October 2012 at 09:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Having got the 2 similar view photos of the viewing areas together in my photo file it becomes apparent that the waiving area for friends was reduced in width by about 12 foot and extended out towards the taxiway to fall in line with the car park (formerly the public viewing area). It can also be seen that the road was widened between the ramp (where Alcock & Brown rested) and the waiving base.
So, Longshot, you were quite right as effectively this appeared to be a slight move westwards.
Posts: 10,647
By: pagen01 - 30th October 2012 at 09:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi Conniefreak, I haven't forgoten about the ATC plans, I will have access to a large scanner within the next few weeks and will get them copied then.
Posts: 70
By: connie freak - 30th October 2012 at 09:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cheers Pagen...that'll do nicely. PM with details, costs etc. ?
Posts: 1,707
By: longshot - 30th October 2012 at 13:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do you have any photos of the Green Dragon Canteen (inside or outside)? There was an interior photo in Air Pictorial a few years ago which didn't look the way I remember it(crowded, steamy, noisy?)
I'm not 100% on the start/finish dates of 1954-1958 for the Central Ground Enclosure. There are photos from the various ground enclosures in Charles Woodley's Heathrow book and in David Carter and David Whitworth's flickr photo collections online
Posts: 346
By: nibb100 - 30th October 2012 at 15:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
sorry but I found this on youtube
it just takes me back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0iEqLorxF4&feature=related
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 30th October 2012 at 17:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Don't apologise - beautiful!!:D I'll bet that young lad won't forget that day in a hurry!!
Posts: 70
By: connie freak - 2nd November 2012 at 21:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Found these recently. Don't know where they came from, I didn't take them.
Posts: 2,828
By: EGTC - 3rd November 2012 at 03:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nice pics!
Posts: 70
By: connie freak - 3rd November 2012 at 10:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks. The Fred Olsen C-46 was on a passenger charter I think, hence parked up in Central. I never saw a Transair viscount on that stand before. Typical Autumn rain, but it never dampened my enthusiasm. Think I saw a few (Transairs) opposite on the other side of the ramp. B & W shot from the Queens shows the early tempory and very full car park, a scene I remember well along with routes 140 and 81B RT's. Colour postcard shows what that car park became, the all new term 1. Evolution in progress and the start of restricted viewing.
Posts: 1,707
By: longshot - 3rd November 2012 at 12:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Interesting!....The Airwork Viscount seems to be G-AODG so it's perhaps on the Airwork/Hunting-Clan service to West Africa ca. 1958 ....note the way the BEA Viscounts are parked square to apron edge
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1958/1958%20-%200074.html
The view from over the entrance to the QB maybe 1956?
The view of BEA's new Terminal 1 with red Routemasters 1969
C-46 ca.1969-1970?
Posts: 346
By: nibb100 - 3rd November 2012 at 12:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
in the pic of the viscount what's parked head on opposite it?
Posts: 10,647
By: pagen01 - 3rd November 2012 at 12:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A Hermes IV, I don't know the date of the pic but I would think it belongs to Skyways or one of the other second-line operators.
Posts: 346
By: nibb100 - 3rd November 2012 at 13:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
thanks,
that's what I thought but it just seemed too late to be one
Posts: 10,647
By: pagen01 - 3rd November 2012 at 13:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think Skyways used them until the early 1960s, and Britavia until 1959 the aircraft went to silver City who used them into the very early 1960s as well.
Airwork and Air Safaris were other post BOAC operators.
Posts: 70
By: connie freak - 4th November 2012 at 09:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I do remember the Green Dragon well. Very high ceilings, tubular steel section chairs and tables (with formica tops). The back entrance was through a passageway and the PanAm guys would park their tugs there when having breakfast. Us spotters would hang out by that entrance so we could pop in for a tea or watch the approach and arrivals at our leisure. The front entrance was double swing doors with antrance lobby, and once outside therew as a view of the Martini roundabout and the main entrance to the airport from the A4. I seem to remember the counter was L shaped and had railings to ensure that you formed a queue.
I had a photo sent to me by dennis Judd (former spotter) of the inside of the dragon, but it was a low concrete section building like the ones attached to the old tower ( became police station). So was there a prvious Green dragon building to the final big one ?
Am trying to attach an aerial pic of the building. Behind the big black freight shed there is a building with 2 pitched roofs, white walls with windows. This is the "Dragon" that I used. I don't remember if all that building or just half of it was the cafe. All of it I think. I used to hang out on the grass between the road and the building by the side of the black shed. A lot of the grass was torn up and concreted for parking for the "Dragon".
I had a holiday job in there for a few weeks back in summer '61. Washing up and table clearing. I was in there having a cuppa with about 6 other spotters and a copper called George turfed us out.I stayed defiantly behind as I was an airport worker. George walked me down to the police station where he made me promise not to go in there again. Of course I didn't go in there again until the next day and it all blew over. That was the only time I was asked to leave there. George was skinny, red faced obnoxious sod with nothing better to do !
Posts: 1,707
By: longshot - 4th November 2012 at 23:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There was a cafe with a juke-box which I visited on the opposite side of the Bath Rd from the Northside terminal around 1957 which I have been told was also called the Green Dragon so perhaps the business moved over to the building by the control tower about 1958/1959. I have read of a cafe near the terminal called Ben's but don't know if it was inside or outside the airfield or if it was just another name for the Green Dragon.
I remember the main doorway to the 'Dragon' but like you mainly used the handy 'back-door'...I remember playing a lot of chess on miniature boards between spotting sessions around 1960/1961
there is a larger scan of the 747 shot on flickr
