By: avion ancien
- 20th May 2008 at 21:13Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In order to prove a point, here are two more images of the little beauties. They were taken about 30 years ago. G-ABUU was taken at Shoreham. G-ACTF was taken at Booker. Ah, happy days!
Apparently it was S.30/2 which made the 18000 ft. crossing of the Andes. Can anyone identify the registrations carried by S.31/9 and S.32/6 and give anything of the history and/or fate of the quartet?
By: Planemike
- 20th May 2008 at 22:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
AA....... Interesting, I had always thought only two went to Argentina but no, certainly looks like four........ AB Archive covered the Swift about 2 - 3 years ago, will have to dig them out.
Whilst we are digging into Swifts: Photos of VP-KAV S.33/8 VR-TAF S.31/2 anyone???
By: Ant.H
- 20th May 2008 at 23:52Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If my memory serves me correctly, didn't Flt. Lt. Nick Comper put forward, as a marketing point, the fact that although the Swift was only a single seater, there was room for a full set of golf clubs in the rear fuselage! Now isn't that enough to make it an extraordinarily appealing aeroplane?
Wasn't there also an option for an in-built briefcase? It slotted in behind the engine firewall, IIRC.
By: 2hotwot
- 23rd May 2008 at 21:13Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Comper was a remarkable aircraft with a remarkable engine, the Pobjoy weighing in at less than 2 lb per horsepower. The Swift also had folding wings which is one of the reasons a parasol was adopted. One of the other remarkable facts is that a high number of Swifts survived impression into the war effort; either the RAF flew them well or didn't fly them at all (unlike the HP42s which they broke!).
Other people may have ideas why but the Comper Swift probably survived as a higher percentage of numbers built than most other types........
By: mike currill
- 24th May 2008 at 09:56Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
lately there has been some talk of at least the Pobjoy R of one of the swifts surfacing in Argintina. The current custodian of this engine does not know it's history but appears wanting to sell it. That's all I know about it but I suspect he may wish mucho dinares for it.
Mike, Remember that the Titanic was built by Irishmen but sunk by an Englishman!
Not strictly true. The Titanic was sunk by an iceberg which inconveniently got in the way. I thought ships and water were supposed to go together, I guess solid water was not part of the thinking.
Someone earlier referred to parasol wings, in the case of the Comper Swift they appear to be more shoulder mounted than parasol.
By: avion ancien
- 24th May 2008 at 18:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wartime Swifts
I suspect that a good deal more Swifts were stored during the last war than saw active service of any sort. It doesn't appear that any were formally impressed or allocated military serial numbers. I doubt that the Swift would have satisfied the impressment criteria. Being a small aircraft with folding wings would have made storage a good deal easier than many of its contemporaries. Maybe that contributed to the type's high post war survival rate.
G-ABPE was owned bt S/Ldr D.F.W.Atcherley and was based at RAF Wittering whilst he was CO of No. 25(F) Squadron in 1941/42. Apparently it flew there in night fighter black, with roundels and the code letters ZK, but no registration marks were carried. Also it is said to have had long range tanks fitted in consequence of being used for frequent night flights. I've never seen a photograph of it in this form.
An unidentified Swift was used as a squadron runabout by No. 247(F) Squadron in 1941. It forced landed at Pulborough with engine trouble on 17.2.41. Does anyone know the identity of this aeroplane?
G-ABUU spent the war with No. 131 Tyneside Squadron, Air Defence Cadet Corps, at Woolsington until 1941 when the squadron was absorbed into the ATC and the Swift went into store at Hooton. It's the one now in Spain.
G-ACTF was used at Portsmouth as the company hack by Portsmouth Aviation. As the earlier post indicated, it's now an Old Warden resident.
This information comes from AB Impressments Log, Volume I, by Peter Moss (1962) and British Civil Aircraft 1919-72, Volume II, by A.J.Jackson (1973).
By: Planemike
- 25th May 2008 at 11:28Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not directly a Swift question........but Comper related.
Nicholas Comper died or to be precise was killed at the age of 42 as a result of becoming invovled in a street fight in Hythe in June 1939. (See page 160 'The Story of the British Light Aeroplane. Terence Broughton).
Does any one know the circumstances, just seems a rather bizarre end to an ex RAF officer and business man in the 1930s ?
By: Atcham Tower
- 25th May 2008 at 12:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In a rather juvenile prank, poor Nick apparently threw a firework in the street and shouted "Up the IRA!" A passer-by took exception to this and punched him, resulting in Nick falling and hitting his head on the kerb, with fatal results.
Re Atcherley's Swift, he flew it at Hawarden when with 7/57 OTU 1940-ish. I always thought it was G-ABUS but stand corrected.
By: scion
- 26th May 2008 at 05:45Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
swift
The swift was an absolutly magnificent design and where do you start with the praise of it. We have dismantled a Pobjoy powered one for restoration and we marvel constantly on the care and forethought that went into it.
A couple of points,
There was space for a small suitcase, enough for a set of shoes and a suit of clothes in a special spot behind the engine. A suitcase of the proper size was supplied.
Alex Henshaw was quoted as saying the Swift had a similar power to weight ratio as an early mark of Spitfire and flew similarly.
There was also space behind the cockpit for ones fishing gear or Purdy shotgun as one flew from the city park to ones seat in the country.
Visibility is excellent except when on taxi. You can see above or below the wing with but little head movement.
By they way did anyone ever live like that in real life?
By: DaveF68
- 28th May 2008 at 14:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
An unidentified Swift was used as a squadron runabout by No. 247(F) Squadron in 1941. It forced landed at Pulborough with engine trouble on 17.2.41. Does anyone know the identity of this aeroplane?
I'm sure the Aeroplane Monthly database article on the Swift identified it - can't recall the reg of the top of my head, but it was one of the in-line engined examples.
By: avion ancien
- 28th May 2008 at 17:56Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm sure the Aeroplane Monthly database article on the Swift identified it - can't recall the reg of the top of my head, but it was one of the in-line engined examples.
If you're right then, by a process of elimination, it must have been G-ABWW. G-ABWH migrated to Australia in July 1939. G-ACBY crashed in July 1933. G-ABWW appears to have resided at Gravesend prior to WW2. I don't know what it was doing between 1939 and 1943 - maybe it was engaged in unofficial war service until force landing at Pulborough in February 1941 - but in 1943 it is said to have been given to an ATC squadron in Tonbridge. Nothing more is known of it subsequent to that. Having regard to the way in which many "instructional airframes" were treated by the ATC, it may not have had a long life once it got into the hands of the Tonbridge boys! If, DaveF68, you can look out the AM article and post the information that it gives then I, for one, will be most grateful.
By: avion ancien
- 3rd June 2008 at 22:25Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If you're right then, by a process of elimination, it must have been G-ABWW. G-ABWH migrated to Australia in July 1939. G-ACBY crashed in July 1933. G-ABWW appears to have resided at Gravesend prior to WW2. I don't know what it was doing between 1939 and 1943 - maybe it was engaged in unofficial war service until force landing at Pulborough in February 1941 - but in 1943 it is said to have been given to an ATC squadron in Tonbridge. Nothing more is known of it subsequent to that. Having regard to the way in which many "instructional airframes" were treated by the ATC, it may not have had a long life once it got into the hands of the Tonbridge boys! If, DaveF68, you can look out the AM article and post the information that it gives then I, for one, will be most grateful.
Has anyone dug out the AM article and identified the Swift that force landed at Pulborough in February 1941?
By: jeepman
- 3rd June 2008 at 23:04Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In this vein, the "other Historic Aviation monthly" has a piece suggesting that the mortal remains of the ex-Alex Henshaw Swift G-ACGL have resurfaced and are now in the possesion of the RAFM.
By: avion ancien
- 4th June 2008 at 11:36Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In this vein, the "other Historic Aviation monthly" has a piece suggesting that the mortal remains of the ex-Alex Henshaw Swift G-ACGL have resurfaced and are now in the possesion of the RAFM.
For those of us who don't live in the UK and so can't read what the "uvver won" has to say about the re-emergence of G-ACGL (and where its mortal remains have been since it was reportedly scrapped in 1942), jeepman can you please expand upon this report. I hope its not another case of the constructor's plate surviving and a "restored" aeroplane being built around it!
By: TEXANTOMCAT
- 4th June 2008 at 11:46Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
sorry for the delay in replying - thanks Scion for the further gen!
As an aside the museum has recently received on loan the prop from G-ABUS when it belonged to Jack Linnell at Sywell - he used it regularly and raced it against his brother Geoffrey who, IIRC had a Miles Hawk then an Auster. (The Linnells were the founding fathers of Sywell Aerodrome in 1928 - see HERE for a brief history and picture of the brothers - http://www.sywellaerodrome.co.uk/history.php )
The prop has a bit of history in that 6" have been cut off each tip - apparently an erk picked the tail of 'BUS up to turn her about and lifted it too high, the tips struck the ground and Jack, being an enterprising sort of chap simply neatened up the edges with a handsaw, rebalanced it (presumably!) and flew with that prop until he sold the machine!
By: jeepman
- 4th June 2008 at 12:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
For those of us who don't live in the UK and so can't read what the "uvver won" has to say about the re-emergence of G-ACGL (and where its mortal remains have been since it was reportedly scrapped in 1942), jeepman can you please expand upon this report. I hope its not another case of the constructor's plate surviving and a "restored" aeroplane being built around it!
Good manners prevented me for quoting verbatim from one of Key's competitors on Key's own website - sorry is that too old fashioned?
Suffice it to say it seems that the remains are substantial and include engine, wing and parts of the tail
Posts: 5,935
By: avion ancien - 20th May 2008 at 21:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In order to prove a point, here are two more images of the little beauties. They were taken about 30 years ago. G-ABUU was taken at Shoreham. G-ACTF was taken at Booker. Ah, happy days!
Posts: 5,935
By: avion ancien - 20th May 2008 at 21:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry if I seem to be hogging this thread at the moment!
It appears that not two but four Swifts went to Argentina - more particularly to C.H.A.Taylor of Aerofotos, Buenos Aires. The four were the following:
S.30/2 G-AAZA/R222/LV-FBA
S.30/6 R232/LV-YEA
S.31/9 ?
S.32/6 ?
Apparently it was S.30/2 which made the 18000 ft. crossing of the Andes. Can anyone identify the registrations carried by S.31/9 and S.32/6 and give anything of the history and/or fate of the quartet?
Posts: 1,813
By: Planemike - 20th May 2008 at 22:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
AA....... Interesting, I had always thought only two went to Argentina but no, certainly looks like four........ AB Archive covered the Swift about 2 - 3 years ago, will have to dig them out.
Whilst we are digging into Swifts: Photos of VP-KAV S.33/8 VR-TAF S.31/2 anyone???
Planemike
Posts: 3,000
By: Ant.H - 20th May 2008 at 23:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wasn't there also an option for an in-built briefcase? It slotted in behind the engine firewall, IIRC.
Posts: 109
By: 2hotwot - 23rd May 2008 at 21:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Comper was a remarkable aircraft with a remarkable engine, the Pobjoy weighing in at less than 2 lb per horsepower. The Swift also had folding wings which is one of the reasons a parasol was adopted. One of the other remarkable facts is that a high number of Swifts survived impression into the war effort; either the RAF flew them well or didn't fly them at all (unlike the HP42s which they broke!).
Other people may have ideas why but the Comper Swift probably survived as a higher percentage of numbers built than most other types........
Posts: 8,505
By: mike currill - 24th May 2008 at 09:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not strictly true. The Titanic was sunk by an iceberg which inconveniently got in the way. I thought ships and water were supposed to go together, I guess solid water was not part of the thinking.Someone earlier referred to parasol wings, in the case of the Comper Swift they appear to be more shoulder mounted than parasol.
Posts: 354
By: OHOPE - 24th May 2008 at 11:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is there any info out there on the ones which became squadron hacks during the war?What colours and or markings did they wear ?
Posts: 5,935
By: avion ancien - 24th May 2008 at 18:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wartime Swifts
I suspect that a good deal more Swifts were stored during the last war than saw active service of any sort. It doesn't appear that any were formally impressed or allocated military serial numbers. I doubt that the Swift would have satisfied the impressment criteria. Being a small aircraft with folding wings would have made storage a good deal easier than many of its contemporaries. Maybe that contributed to the type's high post war survival rate.
G-ABPE was owned bt S/Ldr D.F.W.Atcherley and was based at RAF Wittering whilst he was CO of No. 25(F) Squadron in 1941/42. Apparently it flew there in night fighter black, with roundels and the code letters ZK, but no registration marks were carried. Also it is said to have had long range tanks fitted in consequence of being used for frequent night flights. I've never seen a photograph of it in this form.
An unidentified Swift was used as a squadron runabout by No. 247(F) Squadron in 1941. It forced landed at Pulborough with engine trouble on 17.2.41. Does anyone know the identity of this aeroplane?
G-ABUU spent the war with No. 131 Tyneside Squadron, Air Defence Cadet Corps, at Woolsington until 1941 when the squadron was absorbed into the ATC and the Swift went into store at Hooton. It's the one now in Spain.
G-ACTF was used at Portsmouth as the company hack by Portsmouth Aviation. As the earlier post indicated, it's now an Old Warden resident.
This information comes from AB Impressments Log, Volume I, by Peter Moss (1962) and British Civil Aircraft 1919-72, Volume II, by A.J.Jackson (1973).
Posts: 1,813
By: Planemike - 25th May 2008 at 11:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not directly a Swift question........but Comper related.
Nicholas Comper died or to be precise was killed at the age of 42 as a result of becoming invovled in a street fight in Hythe in June 1939. (See page 160 'The Story of the British Light Aeroplane. Terence Broughton).
Does any one know the circumstances, just seems a rather bizarre end to an ex RAF officer and business man in the 1930s ?
Planemike
Posts: 797
By: Atcham Tower - 25th May 2008 at 12:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In a rather juvenile prank, poor Nick apparently threw a firework in the street and shouted "Up the IRA!" A passer-by took exception to this and punched him, resulting in Nick falling and hitting his head on the kerb, with fatal results.
Re Atcherley's Swift, he flew it at Hawarden when with 7/57 OTU 1940-ish. I always thought it was G-ABUS but stand corrected.
Posts: 1,813
By: Planemike - 25th May 2008 at 12:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Atcham.........Thank you for the info.
What a sad and strange end to a gifted man but I suppose life has a few tricks like that up it's sleeve.
Planemike
Posts: 8,505
By: mike currill - 25th May 2008 at 12:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Doesn't it just? How many cases of a similar nature could be quoted by the people on here alone? I reckon there'd be a good few.
Posts: 104
By: scion - 26th May 2008 at 05:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
swift
The swift was an absolutly magnificent design and where do you start with the praise of it. We have dismantled a Pobjoy powered one for restoration and we marvel constantly on the care and forethought that went into it.
A couple of points,
There was space for a small suitcase, enough for a set of shoes and a suit of clothes in a special spot behind the engine. A suitcase of the proper size was supplied.
Alex Henshaw was quoted as saying the Swift had a similar power to weight ratio as an early mark of Spitfire and flew similarly.
There was also space behind the cockpit for ones fishing gear or Purdy shotgun as one flew from the city park to ones seat in the country.
Visibility is excellent except when on taxi. You can see above or below the wing with but little head movement.
By they way did anyone ever live like that in real life?
Posts: 1,777
By: DaveF68 - 28th May 2008 at 14:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm sure the Aeroplane Monthly database article on the Swift identified it - can't recall the reg of the top of my head, but it was one of the in-line engined examples.
Posts: 5,935
By: avion ancien - 28th May 2008 at 17:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If you're right then, by a process of elimination, it must have been G-ABWW. G-ABWH migrated to Australia in July 1939. G-ACBY crashed in July 1933. G-ABWW appears to have resided at Gravesend prior to WW2. I don't know what it was doing between 1939 and 1943 - maybe it was engaged in unofficial war service until force landing at Pulborough in February 1941 - but in 1943 it is said to have been given to an ATC squadron in Tonbridge. Nothing more is known of it subsequent to that. Having regard to the way in which many "instructional airframes" were treated by the ATC, it may not have had a long life once it got into the hands of the Tonbridge boys! If, DaveF68, you can look out the AM article and post the information that it gives then I, for one, will be most grateful.
Posts: 5,935
By: avion ancien - 3rd June 2008 at 22:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Has anyone dug out the AM article and identified the Swift that force landed at Pulborough in February 1941?
Posts: 1,988
By: jeepman - 3rd June 2008 at 23:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In this vein, the "other Historic Aviation monthly" has a piece suggesting that the mortal remains of the ex-Alex Henshaw Swift G-ACGL have resurfaced and are now in the possesion of the RAFM.
Posts: 5,935
By: avion ancien - 4th June 2008 at 11:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
For those of us who don't live in the UK and so can't read what the "uvver won" has to say about the re-emergence of G-ACGL (and where its mortal remains have been since it was reportedly scrapped in 1942), jeepman can you please expand upon this report. I hope its not another case of the constructor's plate surviving and a "restored" aeroplane being built around it!
Posts: 4,561
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 4th June 2008 at 11:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
sorry for the delay in replying - thanks Scion for the further gen!
As an aside the museum has recently received on loan the prop from G-ABUS when it belonged to Jack Linnell at Sywell - he used it regularly and raced it against his brother Geoffrey who, IIRC had a Miles Hawk then an Auster. (The Linnells were the founding fathers of Sywell Aerodrome in 1928 - see HERE for a brief history and picture of the brothers - http://www.sywellaerodrome.co.uk/history.php )
The prop has a bit of history in that 6" have been cut off each tip - apparently an erk picked the tail of 'BUS up to turn her about and lifted it too high, the tips struck the ground and Jack, being an enterprising sort of chap simply neatened up the edges with a handsaw, rebalanced it (presumably!) and flew with that prop until he sold the machine!
TT
Posts: 1,988
By: jeepman - 4th June 2008 at 12:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good manners prevented me for quoting verbatim from one of Key's competitors on Key's own website - sorry is that too old fashioned?
Suffice it to say it seems that the remains are substantial and include engine, wing and parts of the tail