Hurricane Recovery on TV

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The new series "Wartime Secrets" on Discovery History will shortly show the recovery of Kenneth Lee's 501 Squadron Hurricane (shot down 18 August 1940 at Whitstable) which was filmed earlier this summer.

The programme goes out on Sunday 21 November at 10pm, Sky Channel 522 or Virgin TV Channel 217.

News of a transmission date for the "Dig 1940" is still awaited, but I am told news is imminent.

Original post

Member for

16 years 4 months

Posts: 818

Was much found??

More than one would imagine from reading 'Battle of Britain Then & Now'.

Incorrectly, the book lists this as the aeroplane flown by a Pole called Koslowski, also of 501 Squadron. When the site was first excavated in 1979 it was thought to be Koslowski's aeroplane but subsequent research proved it was not. According to the book, the aeroplane was fully recovered - including the engine!! In fact, only cockpit items were recovered (I was involved first time around, as well!) and the engine was left in the ground. I think incorrect or misleading information was deliberately submitted to the publisher to place information in the public domain that would throw other later investigators off the scent. However, since I knew that the engine was still there we went back......

Apart from the engine we also found the aircraft number, P3059. Quite a well photographed aeroplane.

Member for

16 years 4 months

Posts: 818

Sounds very interesting, I will make sure I am tuned in. Well done on finding the number, I bet the cameras loved that!

Just bumping this up....

Tonight at 10pm, Discovery History Channel (Sky Channel 522 and Virgin TV 217), Sunday 21 November.

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 648

Thanks Andy, programmer duly set !

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 1,715

Just finished watching it excellent.Amazing getting the engine out so intact.

Member for

16 years 1 month

Posts: 1,311

Yes very good http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/images/icons/icon14.gif

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 255

Just finished watching it excellent.Amazing getting the engine out so intact.

I wonder what happened to the remains of this well preserved engine and whether any precautions were taken to preserve its condition?

Errrrr......yes! :confused:

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 255

Errrrr......yes! :confused:

Sorry to confuse you, my post was not very clear :D, are there any plans to display these remains anywhere and how are the parts preserved, I ask because there was no clue what would happen to the remains on the TV program last night, and in fact, as they where in somebody's private garden, who actually has a say over there future ?

They have been cleaned/conserved and are awaiting transit to a museum where they will be on display, hopefully, by next summer.

The MOD are (technically) the arbiter as to what becomes of items like this post-recovery.

The matter of who really "owns" this stuff has never been tested. At least, when it has come to crunch of a legal test the MOD have never pursued it. The Protection of Military Remains Act is silent about the question of ownership/title, although clearly a licence is needed under the PMR Act for any recovery.

In the case of Kenneth Lee's Hurricane engine, one might have thought that if you had bought a house with this buried in the garden then you would pretty much own the engine buried there. Not so. At least, not as far as the MOD are concerned. At this stage, and as the MOD have not yet "released" the wreckage recovered in early May it has not yet been possible to present the owner of the house with artefacts recovered from "her" Hurricane.

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 255

Thanks for your reply,
I am interested in the conservation of artefacts and have seen mint engine parts quickly go to a rusty heap in not stablised immediately they are recovered from the oily and airless environment that preserved them.
As to ownership, I asked because of what I have read elsewhere, such as the two examples below.
Quotes
“This engine was recovered by a land owner from the wreck of two spitfires that midaired over Catterick. We where given the engine on semi permanent loan to restore and display(eighteen months ago).After three months he got a better offer and I now understand its COFFEE TABLES what we and many others could do with this engine.”

“The Catterick Spitfire saga sounds a bit of a B*##er - I recall attending a Halifax dig over that way many years ago and the farmer ended up hijacking it and decided he liked the two engines (Hercules and very intact) we found so much he would keep them .”

The above posts copied from this thread;

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101391&highlight=hercules

Well, if the landowner says they want to retain items recovered from their land and refuses to allow the recovery group to take it away there is not a lot one can do. Its happened many-a-time before now. But I wonder how the MOD would get on if they then tried to legally sieze it?

I think I know!

Member for

14 years 8 months

Posts: 4,956

Legally they would have to get a warrant, wouldn't they? Missed the programme, as I was away, so must look out for repeats, especially as it is near my patch - it sounds very interesting.

I understand it is being repeated tonight, SkyHigh, although I haven't looked up the time.

Member for

14 years 8 months

Posts: 4,956

Thanks, Andy - I haven't found it yet, but will keep an eye out on the daily schedules.

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 648

8pm on the normal ch. or 9pm on the Discovery History + 1

Have to say that that Spitfire Girl (Lady!)was a treat ! the giggles and laughs out of her were a joy to hear , she really did enjoy herself !

Member for

16 years 6 months

Posts: 1,679

When will it be on "proper " telly ?

dont have no new fangled box/dish thingy..

Mainly because the listed building conservation office wont let us have one..

I don't think it will be on "proper telly". At least, I'd be surprised if it got sold to any of the "proper telly" channels.

Member for

19 years 5 months

Posts: 634

MOD return

Hi Andy - only managed to watch odd bits of the programme last night but as they appeared to be eking it out with the extra stuff – as interesting as it was – I kept missing the actual dig bits! Looked good & I will try to catch a repeat - From what I saw though the level of corrosion seemed quite severe at first despite the nice clay looking soil – was this perhaps due to exposure from a previous dig on the site?

Our Mustang dig – coincidentally also in a rather nice garden and also took a lot of negotiating to gain permission to excavate! - took place at the end of June and I have had the MOD return back, granting title to all the finds including the relatively intact Merlin without any problems – Is the delay due to your sites “greater historical significance” in their eyes? i.e. are they trying to claim some / all of your finds – I feel this could be very significant for other groups if this is the case.

Finally a quick heads-up - our dig was filmed by the BBC and is due to be aired soon on Inside Out North West, so will be on the iplayer for those not in the region - will post details as soon as I get a date.