JGSDF AH-64D debuted at Fuji Combined Firepower Exercise, at Higashi Fuji exercise range, Shizuoka Prefecture, on 26 August 2007.
Personnel, about 2,000 people.
Type 90 main battle tanks and other ground vehicles, about 60 units.
Artillery, about 40 units.
Helicopters and other aircraft, about 20 units.
Ammunitions, about 39 tons.
Costs, 310 million Yen.
Duration, about 1.5 hours.
Visitors, about 24,000 people.
Additional photos of JGSDF AH-64D #1 acceptance ceremony, at Fuji Heavy Industries Utsunomiya, on 15 March 2006... but can't seem to see any Shintou Miko (priestess) in red and white robes. 8(
The Japan Aviation News also reported the brief news about the revision of the acquision plan of the AH-64D.
There has been a rumor about the AH-64D on Japanese military web forums that the JGSDF may stop the AH-64D orders after 14th.
It seems to me that the bad rumors about the AH-64D has turned out to be true.
The Japan Aviation News also reported the brief news about the revision of the acquision plan of the AH-64D.
There has been a rumor about the AH-64D on Japanese military web forums that the JGSDF may stop the AH-64D orders after 14th.
It seems to me that the bad rumors about the AH-64D has turned out to be true.
What are the bad rumors? Can you elaborate?
New
Posts: 10,217
By: flex297
- 11th September 2007 at 22:55Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What are the bad rumors? Can you elaborate?
He probably means poor survivalability and ability to withstand battle damage, as well as dubious reliability in desert conditions.
But from what I know, the Japanese decision to cut Apaches was strictly of financial nature. Apaches are expensive to procure, maintain and operate.
By: Ishikawa
- 12th September 2007 at 14:39Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What are the bad rumors? Can you elaborate?
The rumors are as folows:
The running cost of a AH-64D is as much expensive as that of a F-15J.
The engines are easy to access for maintaince at the expense of the durability of the engines ,and the short life span engines make the AH-64D more expensive to use.
The Air-to-Air Stinger is difficlut to use in fact.
The 2nd generation FLIR device and other observatopn devices are getting out of date.
The date-link system dose not accommodate the Japanese indigenous systems.
To improve these conditions is difficult due to the contractual restrictions imposed on the JSDF.
Wednesday, 19 December 2007:
A new JGSDF AH-64D can cost up to 21.6 billion Yen each, twice the cost of a jet fighter.
As of 2007, JGSDF has acquired 10 AH-64D, since 2002. Intended to replace 84 AH-1S by 62 AH-64D.
JGSDF AH-64D initial cost is 6 billion Yen.
Because some parts are domestic manufactured, cost becomes 8.3 billion Yen, by fiscal year 2008.
This year, Boeing discontinues AH-64D production. JGSDF may acquire total 13 AH-64D.
If include equipment (machinery) investments by domestic makers to license-produce AH-64D, a new JGSDF AH-64D can cost up to 21.6 billion Yen each.
"Rising costs force govt to scrap plan to buy attack helicopters"
(Dec. 22, 2007)
The Yomiuri Shimbun
The government has abandoned plans to purchase an AH-64D Apache attack helicopter that the Defense Ministry had hoped to include in the next fiscal budget after the cost of the helicopter rose from an initial 8.3 billion yen per unit to 21.6 billion yen.
By: Fedaykin
- 24th August 2008 at 17:15Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
He probably means poor survivalability and ability to withstand battle damage, as well as dubious reliability in desert conditions.
But from what I know, the Japanese decision to cut Apaches was strictly of financial nature. Apaches are expensive to procure, maintain and operate.
I must admit I have pondered the financial nature of the Apache issue in Japan and I do see it as odd.
Considering the gold plated nature of the Japanese armed forces its a surprising line to take. They are happy to fork out for state of the art (take there desire for F22) yet balk at the Apache prices makes you wonder.
"U.S. Offers to Sell 36 Apache Helicopters to S. Korea at 60 percent of Tag Price"
Sunday, September 14, 2008
The Seoul Times
The United States has offered to sell 36 used Apache attack helicopters to South Korea at less than 60 percent of the out-of-factory price, with upgrades to replace most of their critical parts, including the frame and engine, Yonhap News reported on Sept. 14.
2 September 2009:
After JMOD decreases its order of AH-64Ds from 62 to 10, Fuji Heavy Industries wants the JMOD to refund the related fee.
In 2001, the JMOD decided to purchase 62 AH-64Ds to replace AH-1Ss, but as each AH-64D costs 6 bil Yen (64,882,401.60 USD), after the 10 AH-64Ds in 2002-2007, the JMOD wants to abort the rest of the order.
OTOH, Fuji has already paid to Boeing, the full amount of license fees for 62 AH-64Ds, which couldn't be refunded. Fuji wants the JMOD to pay back 50 bil Yen (540,862,140.00 USD) in 2-3 months, or it will sue.
(AFAIK, an US Army AH-64D costs roughly 35 mil USD, a few years ago. And no, I'm not a shareholder of these companies.)
By: F35b
- 2nd September 2009 at 14:58Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Does anyone know of a breakdown of cost for the Apache? I never quite understood why it is so expensive. Personally i would think Japan would be better going into a development deal with south korea and developing their own attack helicopter that meets their requirements. If they didn't want to start from scratch they could use the engine and gear box of a previous helicopter or use one of the other attack helicopters as a starting point. Say the A-129 or the tiger or the south african attack helicopter.
By: Grim901
- 2nd September 2009 at 16:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Does anyone know of a breakdown of cost for the Apache? I never quite understood why it is so expensive. Personally i would think Japan would be better going into a development deal with south korea and developing their own attack helicopter that meets their requirements. If they didn't want to start from scratch they could use the engine and gear box of a previous helicopter or use one of the other attack helicopters as a starting point. Say the A-129 or the tiger or the south african attack helicopter.
I think the main reason why Apache is more than similar helicopters (Tiger etc) is because people forget that whilst they look similar, that big bulge above the rotors of the Apache does a lot of fancy things that the competitors don't seem to do.
"Fuji Heavy to Ask Defense Ministry for Compensation, Asahi Says"
By Tak Kumakura
Sept. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. will ask Japan's Defense Ministry for almost 50 billion yen ($538 million) in compensation after the ministry canceled a plan to buy helicopters, the Asahi newspaper said.
By: GlennD
- 5th October 2009 at 10:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
JGSDF AH-64DJP
Hi All
Can someboby confirm that the JGSDF is only going to get/have 10 x AH-64DJP's? I understand that further order has ceased after 10 x helo's. I've also picked up reports (but this could be before announcement) of 13/14 x helo's. Either way really sorry to hear about it comming down from 50 x helo's. Think JGSDF would be interested in the SA Rooivalk is price was right? Oh yes, if any kind soul has/knows of where I can get pics of 74503 / 74508 / 74509 and 74510, please let me know. Contemplating a 1/48 AH-64DJP modeling project.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 26th August 2007 at 14:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20070826-00000009-jijp-soci.view-000
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20070826-00000914-san-pol
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20070826-00000022-jij-soci
reported:
JGSDF AH-64D debuted at Fuji Combined Firepower Exercise, at Higashi Fuji exercise range, Shizuoka Prefecture, on 26 August 2007.
Personnel, about 2,000 people.
Type 90 main battle tanks and other ground vehicles, about 60 units.
Artillery, about 40 units.
Helicopters and other aircraft, about 20 units.
Ammunitions, about 39 tons.
Costs, 310 million Yen.
Duration, about 1.5 hours.
Visitors, about 24,000 people.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 26th August 2007 at 14:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.media-eyes.com/index/0315_news.html
Additional photos of JGSDF AH-64D #1 acceptance ceremony, at Fuji Heavy Industries Utsunomiya, on 15 March 2006... but can't seem to see any Shintou Miko (priestess) in red and white robes. 8(
Posts: 55
By: Ishikawa - 11th September 2007 at 15:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Japan to halt AH-64D Apache orders after 13th airframe
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/09/10/216559/japan-to-halt-ah-64d-apache-orders-after-13th-airframe.html
The Japan Aviation News also reported the brief news about the revision of the acquision plan of the AH-64D.
There has been a rumor about the AH-64D on Japanese military web forums that the JGSDF may stop the AH-64D orders after 14th.
It seems to me that the bad rumors about the AH-64D has turned out to be true.
Posts: 445
By: BlauerMax - 11th September 2007 at 18:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What are the bad rumors? Can you elaborate?
Posts: 10,217
By: flex297 - 11th September 2007 at 22:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
He probably means poor survivalability and ability to withstand battle damage, as well as dubious reliability in desert conditions.But from what I know, the Japanese decision to cut Apaches was strictly of financial nature. Apaches are expensive to procure, maintain and operate.
Posts: 55
By: Ishikawa - 12th September 2007 at 14:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The rumors are as folows:
The running cost of a AH-64D is as much expensive as that of a F-15J.
The engines are easy to access for maintaince at the expense of the durability of the engines ,and the short life span engines make the AH-64D more expensive to use.
The Air-to-Air Stinger is difficlut to use in fact.
The 2nd generation FLIR device and other observatopn devices are getting out of date.
The date-link system dose not accommodate the Japanese indigenous systems.
To improve these conditions is difficult due to the contractual restrictions imposed on the JSDF.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 1st October 2007 at 07:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.k3.dion.ne.jp/~mitsuryu/garou/2007kasumi.html
2007 open house at Kasumigaura JGSDF Base.
Close-up photos. 8D
AH-1S. 73475.
AH-64D. 74504.
CH-47.
OH-1. 32616.
OH-6. 31195.
And other ground vehicles.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 19th December 2007 at 14:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20071219-00000934-san-pol
Wednesday, 19 December 2007:
A new JGSDF AH-64D can cost up to 21.6 billion Yen each, twice the cost of a jet fighter.
As of 2007, JGSDF has acquired 10 AH-64D, since 2002. Intended to replace 84 AH-1S by 62 AH-64D.
JGSDF AH-64D initial cost is 6 billion Yen.
Because some parts are domestic manufactured, cost becomes 8.3 billion Yen, by fiscal year 2008.
This year, Boeing discontinues AH-64D production. JGSDF may acquire total 13 AH-64D.
If include equipment (machinery) investments by domestic makers to license-produce AH-64D, a new JGSDF AH-64D can cost up to 21.6 billion Yen each.
Posts: 400
By: Lightndattic - 20th December 2007 at 15:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Zulu Cobra, anyone?
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 23rd December 2007 at 01:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/business/20071222TDY04303.htm
"Rising costs force govt to scrap plan to buy attack helicopters"
(Dec. 22, 2007)
The Yomiuri Shimbun
The government has abandoned plans to purchase an AH-64D Apache attack helicopter that the Defense Ministry had hoped to include in the next fiscal budget after the cost of the helicopter rose from an initial 8.3 billion yen per unit to 21.6 billion yen.
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 23rd December 2007 at 02:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why not... the Marines thought that was the better way to go.
That way, they will already be marinized for use from the Oosumi class LSTs and the Hyuga class DDHs.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 24th August 2008 at 17:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/toguwo2000/43269425.html
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20080823-00000024-yom-pol
"Attack helicopter Apache supply cancellation, each aircraft is 20,000,000,000 Yen rise in price"
23 August 2008
Posts: 5,267
By: Fedaykin - 24th August 2008 at 17:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I must admit I have pondered the financial nature of the Apache issue in Japan and I do see it as odd.
Considering the gold plated nature of the Japanese armed forces its a surprising line to take. They are happy to fork out for state of the art (take there desire for F22) yet balk at the Apache prices makes you wonder.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 14th September 2008 at 05:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
(Note: ROK news, not Japan news.)
http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=7244
"U.S. Offers to Sell 36 Apache Helicopters to S. Korea at 60 percent of Tag Price"
Sunday, September 14, 2008
The Seoul Times
The United States has offered to sell 36 used Apache attack helicopters to South Korea at less than 60 percent of the out-of-factory price, with upgrades to replace most of their critical parts, including the frame and engine, Yonhap News reported on Sept. 14.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 2nd September 2009 at 14:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Japan air no-show again.
http://jp.reuters.com/article/domesticJPNews/idJPJAPAN-11301520090902
2 September 2009:
After JMOD decreases its order of AH-64Ds from 62 to 10, Fuji Heavy Industries wants the JMOD to refund the related fee.
In 2001, the JMOD decided to purchase 62 AH-64Ds to replace AH-1Ss, but as each AH-64D costs 6 bil Yen (64,882,401.60 USD), after the 10 AH-64Ds in 2002-2007, the JMOD wants to abort the rest of the order.
OTOH, Fuji has already paid to Boeing, the full amount of license fees for 62 AH-64Ds, which couldn't be refunded. Fuji wants the JMOD to pay back 50 bil Yen (540,862,140.00 USD) in 2-3 months, or it will sue.
(AFAIK, an US Army AH-64D costs roughly 35 mil USD, a few years ago. And no, I'm not a shareholder of these companies.)
Posts: 421
By: F35b - 2nd September 2009 at 14:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Does anyone know of a breakdown of cost for the Apache? I never quite understood why it is so expensive. Personally i would think Japan would be better going into a development deal with south korea and developing their own attack helicopter that meets their requirements. If they didn't want to start from scratch they could use the engine and gear box of a previous helicopter or use one of the other attack helicopters as a starting point. Say the A-129 or the tiger or the south african attack helicopter.
Posts: 1,142
By: Grim901 - 2nd September 2009 at 16:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the main reason why Apache is more than similar helicopters (Tiger etc) is because people forget that whilst they look similar, that big bulge above the rotors of the Apache does a lot of fancy things that the competitors don't seem to do.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 3rd September 2009 at 05:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=anCV5fXnWRIM
"Fuji Heavy to Ask Defense Ministry for Compensation, Asahi Says"
By Tak Kumakura
Sept. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. will ask Japan's Defense Ministry for almost 50 billion yen ($538 million) in compensation after the ministry canceled a plan to buy helicopters, the Asahi newspaper said.
Posts: 2
By: GlennD - 5th October 2009 at 10:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
JGSDF AH-64DJP
Hi All
Can someboby confirm that the JGSDF is only going to get/have 10 x AH-64DJP's? I understand that further order has ceased after 10 x helo's. I've also picked up reports (but this could be before announcement) of 13/14 x helo's. Either way really sorry to hear about it comming down from 50 x helo's. Think JGSDF would be interested in the SA Rooivalk is price was right? Oh yes, if any kind soul has/knows of where I can get pics of 74503 / 74508 / 74509 and 74510, please let me know. Contemplating a 1/48 AH-64DJP modeling project.
Kind Regards
GlennD
Posts: 4,951
By: MadRat - 5th October 2009 at 13:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
How comparable is AH-1Z to the AH-64D?