By: GlennD
- 5th October 2009 at 14:53Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks
Hi Don
Many thanks for info. Have saved pic. If my mathematics is correct, doesn't look like "09" and "10" have been delivered. Understand that these (hopefully) for JGSDF will be delivered begining of 2010. These maybe the last two, not sure.
By: Bager1968
- 8th November 2009 at 09:25Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
How comparable is AH-1Z to the AH-64D?
OK, some of this is manufacturer hype, but:
AH-1Z Viper
Cost (2006): $12 million (refurbished); somewhere below $44 million (new-build price offered to South Korea "with extras")
Accommodation: Crew 2
Length, rotors turning: 17,73 m
Fuselage length: 13,87 m
Wingspan: 4,39 m
Height: 3,78 m to the rotor head
Main rotor diameter: 14,63 m
Max Weight: 8391 kg / 8,409 kg (18,538 lb)
Min Weight: 5580 kg / 5,591 kg (12,326 lb)
Max. useful load: 2812 kg
Internal fuel: 1565 litres
Ceiling: 6,100 m (20,013 ft),
Maximum Rate of Climb: 2,790 ft/min (14.2 m/s; 852 mpm)
Max Range: 420 km (227 nm),
Speed limit (Vne): 410 kph (222 kts)
Max. speed: 298 km/h (161 kts)
Cruise speed: 265 km/h (143 kts)
g-loads: + 2,6 / - 0,5 g
Endurance: 3 hours 18 min
# Mission radius: 234 km with 1134 kg of payload
# 334 km with 291 l auxiliary fuel tank
Max. range: 705 km (close air support mission with 8 Hellfire, 14 rockets, 650 rounds of ammunition at 3000 ft at 91,5 deg F)
* AGM-114A, B, and C Hellfire and anti-tank missiles up to 16 total
* AGM-114F Hellfire anti-ship missiles – up to 16 total
* 70mm Rockets, 19 or 7 shot pods –up to 76 total
* AIM-9 Sidewinder*
(*A superior supersonic air-to-air missile with infrared target detection for fire and forget capability.)
* LUU-2A/B nighttime illumination flare
* Mk 77 fire bombs
* 77 and 100 gallon external auxiliary fuel tanks
* 20 mm cannon
(With a higher muzzle velocity and flatter trajectory for better accuracy, it is capable of handling M50-series rounds designed specifically for air-to-air combat)
* MK 76 practice bombs
* BDU-33D/B practice bombs
* MK 106 practice bombs
new composite four bladed rotor system and 2 T700-GE-401 engines (1437 shp -401A until they time-expire, then 1800 shp -401Cs.).
Virtually identical front and rear cockpits (either pilot can fly or operate weapons systems)
The AH-1Z Target Sight System (TSS) incorporates a third-generation FLIR and currently provides the longest range, lowest jitter and highest weapons' accuracy possible of any helicopter sight in the world. In addition, the completely passive and automatic system scans the battlefield without emitting trackable radar, positively identifying and tracking multiple targets at ranges beyond the maximum range of its weapons system.
A podded Longbow radar has been developed that can be mounted on a wing tip station.
AH-1Z and UH-1Y cockpits are virtually identical for flight instruments, meaning pilots can easily fly either aircraft.
Originally, all 125 AH-1Zs were to be refurbished, the program was then expanded to be 146 AH-1W>AH-1Z conversions and 40 new-build, and then 40 more new-builds were recently ordered, bringing the total to 226, with 80 new-build.
A contract to build new airframe tooling for the new-builds was recently signed by Bell & the USN.
AH-64D
Cost (2006): $56.25 million (new build block III)
Propulsion: Two 1800 shp T700-GE-701Cs
Length: 58.17 ft (17.73 m)
Height: 13.30 ft (4.05 m)
Wing Span: 17.15 ft (5.227 m)
Primary Mission Gross Weight: 16,027 lb (7270 kg) Lot 1
Empty weight: 11,799 lb (5,352 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 23,000 lb (10,433 kg)
Hover In-Ground Effect (MRP): 14,650 ft (4465 m) [Standard Day]; 13,350 ft (4068 m) [Hot Day ISA + 15 C]
Hover Out-of-Ground Effect (MRP): 10,520 ft (3206 m) [Standard Day]; 9,050 ft (2759 m) [Hot Day ISA + 15 C]
Ceiling: 21,000 ft (6,400 m)
Vertical Rate of Climb (MRP): 1,775 fpm (541 mpm) [Sea Level Standard Day]; 1,595 fpm (486 mpm) [Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Maximum Rate of Climb (IRP): 2,635 fpm (803 mpm) [Sea Level Standard Day]; 2,600 fpm (793 mpm) [Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Maximum Level Flight Speed: 147 kt (273 kph) [Sea Level Standard Day]; 149 kt (276 kph) [Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Cruise Speed (MCP): 147 kt (273 kph) [Sea Level Standard Day]; 149 kt (276 kph) [Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Endurance: 2 hours 30 min
Range: 400 km - internal fuel; 1,900 km - internal and external fuel
Summary:
Both have helmet-mounted integrated sight systems & night-vision in the helmet.
Both carry the same number of Hellfire & FFAR.
Both use the same engines.
Viper is faster (161 kt vs 149 kt), has 40 min longer endurance, longer range on internal fuel (705 km vs 400 km), a faster Rate of Climb: (852 mpm vs 803 mpm), and is at least 28% cheaper for a new-build.
Both aircrew positions have full flight & weapons controls for safety and flexibility.
It also has 84% parts commonality and full aircrew interoperability with the USMC's light utility helo (UH-1Y).
Apache has a higher cruise speed (149 kt vs 143 kt), a higher ceiling (6,400 m vs 6,100 m), lighter airframe weight (5,352 kg empty vs 5,591 kg), and has a permanently-mounted Longbow radar vs pod-mounted which uses a weapons station.
Only the rear seat has flight controls, and the front seat has most of the weapons & sensor controls.
It shares far less parts with the UH-60 (engines, communications, and self-defense suites... and little else), and requires completely different aircrew certifications.
By: MadRat
- 8th November 2009 at 17:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for the detailed comparison, Bager1968!
It looks like they tried to shoehorn the Apache into the army like the Viper is in the navy/marines; using parts commonality between attack and utility platforms.
By: Bager1968
- 11th November 2009 at 03:00Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
OK... most of what I have seen was like this: "The Apache is crewed by two personnel seated in tandem with the gunner in front and the pilot seated in back", but with further digging, I found this: "The gunner's position has simple backup flight controls''.
The AH-1Z has full flight controls in both positions.
15 January 2010:
Fuji Heavy Industries continues to sue the JMOD for 35 bil Yen.
In 2001, after the JMOD ordered 62 AH-64D for the JGSDF, Fuji paid Boeing, 42 bil Yen of license production fee for all 62 heloes.
By 2007, after Fuji was contracted for 10 heloes, the JMOD reduced the order from 62 to 13.
The JMOD has paid Fuji, only 7 bil Yen.
The per-unit-cost surged from 6 bil Yen to 8.3 bil Yen.
By: HAWX ace
- 16th January 2010 at 14:40Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Saturday, Jan. 16, 2010
FHI files ¥35 billion chopper suit Bloomberg
Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. filed a lawsuit against the government seeking to recover ¥35 billion in expenses related to the manufacture of the U.S.-designed Apache attack helicopter.
Fuji Heavy wants compensation from the Defense Ministry for license fees it paid to Boeing Co. for AH-64D helicopters, company spokesman Fusao Watanabe said Friday. The ministry, which agreed to buy 62 helicopters, only placed orders for 10, according to Watanabe.
An official at the Defense Ministry, who declined to be identified, said she couldn't comment as she hadn't been briefed on the matter
12 March 2010:
AH-64D.
Seibu Houmentai, JGSDF, based at Metabaru JGSDF Base, Saga Prefecture.
One AH-64D assigned to Metabaru JGSDF Base. Ninth AH-64D in country.
From late March, begins training. Replaces one AH-1S removed in 2006.
Other AH-64D already assigned to Akeno, Mie Prefecture, and Kasumigaura, Ibaraki Prefecture.
16 May 2010:
AH-1S, AH-64D, OH-1, etc.
JGSDF, at Kasumigaura JGSDF Base, Ibaraki Prefecture.
Kasumigaura JGSDF Base 57th anniversary, and Kantou supply depot 12th anniversary.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 5th October 2009 at 14:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
] where I can get pics of 74503 / 74508 / 74509 and 74510,
http://www1a.biglobe.ne.jp/mediaeye/index/09-0830_news.html
has "small" photos of AH-64D 74506/SD, 74507/SD, and 74508/SK.
Posts: 2
By: GlennD - 5th October 2009 at 14:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks
Hi Don
Many thanks for info. Have saved pic. If my mathematics is correct, doesn't look like "09" and "10" have been delivered. Understand that these (hopefully) for JGSDF will be delivered begining of 2010. These maybe the last two, not sure.
Kind Regards
GlennD
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 8th November 2009 at 02:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/yoakenakazu/60465359.html
On or about 2009.09.04:
AH-64D. 74507.
JGSDF.
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 8th November 2009 at 09:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
OK, some of this is manufacturer hype, but:
AH-1Z Viper
Cost (2006): $12 million (refurbished); somewhere below $44 million (new-build price offered to South Korea "with extras")
Accommodation: Crew 2
Length, rotors turning: 17,73 m
Fuselage length: 13,87 m
Wingspan: 4,39 m
Height: 3,78 m to the rotor head
Main rotor diameter: 14,63 m
Max Weight: 8391 kg / 8,409 kg (18,538 lb)
Min Weight: 5580 kg / 5,591 kg (12,326 lb)
Max. useful load: 2812 kg
Internal fuel: 1565 litres
Ceiling: 6,100 m (20,013 ft),
Maximum Rate of Climb: 2,790 ft/min (14.2 m/s; 852 mpm)
Max Range: 420 km (227 nm),
Speed limit (Vne): 410 kph (222 kts)
Max. speed: 298 km/h (161 kts)
Cruise speed: 265 km/h (143 kts)
g-loads: + 2,6 / - 0,5 g
Endurance: 3 hours 18 min
# Mission radius: 234 km with 1134 kg of payload
# 334 km with 291 l auxiliary fuel tank
Max. range: 705 km (close air support mission with 8 Hellfire, 14 rockets, 650 rounds of ammunition at 3000 ft at 91,5 deg F)
* AGM-114A, B, and C Hellfire and anti-tank missiles up to 16 total
* AGM-114F Hellfire anti-ship missiles – up to 16 total
* 70mm Rockets, 19 or 7 shot pods –up to 76 total
* AIM-9 Sidewinder*
(*A superior supersonic air-to-air missile with infrared target detection for fire and forget capability.)
* LUU-2A/B nighttime illumination flare
* Mk 77 fire bombs
* 77 and 100 gallon external auxiliary fuel tanks
* 20 mm cannon
(With a higher muzzle velocity and flatter trajectory for better accuracy, it is capable of handling M50-series rounds designed specifically for air-to-air combat)
* MK 76 practice bombs
* BDU-33D/B practice bombs
* MK 106 practice bombs
new composite four bladed rotor system and 2 T700-GE-401 engines (1437 shp -401A until they time-expire, then 1800 shp -401Cs.).
Virtually identical front and rear cockpits (either pilot can fly or operate weapons systems)
The AH-1Z Target Sight System (TSS) incorporates a third-generation FLIR and currently provides the longest range, lowest jitter and highest weapons' accuracy possible of any helicopter sight in the world. In addition, the completely passive and automatic system scans the battlefield without emitting trackable radar, positively identifying and tracking multiple targets at ranges beyond the maximum range of its weapons system.
A podded Longbow radar has been developed that can be mounted on a wing tip station.
AH-1Z and UH-1Y cockpits are virtually identical for flight instruments, meaning pilots can easily fly either aircraft.
Originally, all 125 AH-1Zs were to be refurbished, the program was then expanded to be 146 AH-1W>AH-1Z conversions and 40 new-build, and then 40 more new-builds were recently ordered, bringing the total to 226, with 80 new-build.
A contract to build new airframe tooling for the new-builds was recently signed by Bell & the USN.
AH-64D
Cost (2006): $56.25 million (new build block III)
Propulsion: Two 1800 shp T700-GE-701Cs
Length: 58.17 ft (17.73 m)
Height: 13.30 ft (4.05 m)
Wing Span: 17.15 ft (5.227 m)
Primary Mission Gross Weight: 16,027 lb (7270 kg) Lot 1
Empty weight: 11,799 lb (5,352 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 23,000 lb (10,433 kg)
Hover In-Ground Effect (MRP): 14,650 ft (4465 m) [Standard Day]; 13,350 ft (4068 m) [Hot Day ISA + 15 C]
Hover Out-of-Ground Effect (MRP): 10,520 ft (3206 m) [Standard Day]; 9,050 ft (2759 m) [Hot Day ISA + 15 C]
Ceiling: 21,000 ft (6,400 m)
Vertical Rate of Climb (MRP): 1,775 fpm (541 mpm) [Sea Level Standard Day]; 1,595 fpm (486 mpm) [Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Maximum Rate of Climb (IRP): 2,635 fpm (803 mpm) [Sea Level Standard Day]; 2,600 fpm (793 mpm) [Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Maximum Level Flight Speed: 147 kt (273 kph) [Sea Level Standard Day]; 149 kt (276 kph) [Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Cruise Speed (MCP): 147 kt (273 kph) [Sea Level Standard Day]; 149 kt (276 kph) [Hot Day 2000 ft 70 F (21 C)]
Endurance: 2 hours 30 min
Range: 400 km - internal fuel; 1,900 km - internal and external fuel
Armament: M230 30mm Gun
70mm (2.75 inch) Hydra-70 Folding-Fin Aerial Rockets (max 76)
AGM-114 HELLFIRE anti-tank missiles (max 16)
AGM-122 Sidearm anti-radar missile (2), or AIM-9 Sidewinder Air-to-Air missiles (2)
Summary:
Both have helmet-mounted integrated sight systems & night-vision in the helmet.
Both carry the same number of Hellfire & FFAR.
Both use the same engines.
Viper is faster (161 kt vs 149 kt), has 40 min longer endurance, longer range on internal fuel (705 km vs 400 km), a faster Rate of Climb: (852 mpm vs 803 mpm), and is at least 28% cheaper for a new-build.
Both aircrew positions have full flight & weapons controls for safety and flexibility.
It also has 84% parts commonality and full aircrew interoperability with the USMC's light utility helo (UH-1Y).
Apache has a higher cruise speed (149 kt vs 143 kt), a higher ceiling (6,400 m vs 6,100 m), lighter airframe weight (5,352 kg empty vs 5,591 kg), and has a permanently-mounted Longbow radar vs pod-mounted which uses a weapons station.
Only the rear seat has flight controls, and the front seat has most of the weapons & sensor controls.
It shares far less parts with the UH-60 (engines, communications, and self-defense suites... and little else), and requires completely different aircrew certifications.
Posts: 4,951
By: MadRat - 8th November 2009 at 17:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for the detailed comparison, Bager1968!
It looks like they tried to shoehorn the Apache into the army like the Viper is in the navy/marines; using parts commonality between attack and utility platforms.
Posts: 809
By: bloodnok - 10th November 2009 at 19:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
[QUOTE=Bager1968;1484777]
Only the rear seat has flight controls [ QUOTE]
Apache has flight controls in both cockpits. ;)
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 11th November 2009 at 03:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
OK... most of what I have seen was like this: "The Apache is crewed by two personnel seated in tandem with the gunner in front and the pilot seated in back", but with further digging, I found this: "The gunner's position has simple backup flight controls''.
The AH-1Z has full flight controls in both positions.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 15th January 2010 at 05:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100115-00000569-yom-soci
15 January 2010:
Fuji Heavy Industries continues to sue the JMOD for 35 bil Yen.
In 2001, after the JMOD ordered 62 AH-64D for the JGSDF, Fuji paid Boeing, 42 bil Yen of license production fee for all 62 heloes.
By 2007, after Fuji was contracted for 10 heloes, the JMOD reduced the order from 62 to 13.
The JMOD has paid Fuji, only 7 bil Yen.
The per-unit-cost surged from 6 bil Yen to 8.3 bil Yen.
Posts: 949
By: roberto_yeager - 15th January 2010 at 11:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Could take the OH-1 "Ninja" any of the attack misions from the AH-64?
Thanks in advance.
1Saludo
Posts: 694
By: HAWX ace - 16th January 2010 at 14:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20100116n4.html
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 14th March 2010 at 14:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.saga-s.co.jp/news/saga.0.1577069.article.html
12 March 2010:
AH-64D.
Seibu Houmentai, JGSDF, based at Metabaru JGSDF Base, Saga Prefecture.
One AH-64D assigned to Metabaru JGSDF Base. Ninth AH-64D in country.
From late March, begins training. Replaces one AH-1S removed in 2006.
Other AH-64D already assigned to Akeno, Mie Prefecture, and Kasumigaura, Ibaraki Prefecture.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 14th May 2010 at 18:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://response.jp/article/2010/05/14/140424.html
16 May 2010:
AH-1S, AH-64D, OH-1, etc.
JGSDF, at Kasumigaura JGSDF Base, Ibaraki Prefecture.
Kasumigaura JGSDF Base 57th anniversary, and Kantou supply depot 12th anniversary.
http://www.47news.jp/CN/201005/CN2010051401000756.html
14 May 2010:
UAV helicopter.
UAV squadron, Chuubu Houmentai, JGSDF, at Imadu JGSDF Base, Shiga Prefecture.
Shown to reporters by 3rd Division, JGSDF, at Senzo JGSDF Base, Hyougo Prefecture.