By: Mark12
- 31st May 2018 at 07:11Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I guess it would be circa 1957 getting the calls that a Boeing 707 and a Tu104 could be viewed at the Hayes side of London Airport, albeit a photographic stretch for the simple camera to hand.
Am I imagining it but weren't there still military style 'arrivals' marquees in this area at this time?
Living on the approach to Northolt I remember the large gasometer at South Harrow having a big 'NO' painted on the side. This was either 'NO for Northolt' or a 'NO this in not London Airport' as there was a similar gasometer at Southall on the LAP approach.
By: ianwoodward9
- 31st May 2018 at 10:45Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for all the various bits of information in response to my earlier questions - much appreciated.
Though there had been flights since the beginning of the year, when it was handed over from the RAF, "London's New Air Terminal" officially opened on Friday, 31 May 1946 -72 years ago this very day. The photograph below appeared in an American newspaper the beginning of the following week - I just love the spade stuck into the earth in the right foreground:
By: Lazy8
- 31st May 2018 at 12:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
[ATTACH=CONFIG]260764[/ATTACH]
Here's a map from the late 1950s, I think. You can see the runways are numbered 1,2,5,6,7. Confusingly, I have also seen other maps where the numbers are in a different order! On this map, the two 'missing' runways are the obvious 15L/33R, which was presumably Runway 3, and the short runway, parallel to Runway 6, running from the Central Area out through Traffic Blocks 11 and 2 (which was presumably Runway 4 in this numberring, but which shows on some early maps as Runway 7). My understanding is that this short runway was to be used for takeoffs only, heading northwest (given that it points almost directly at Langley Airfield, it's tempting to make a connection with BSAA aircraft hopping over the hedge for maintenance, but that may be an assumption too far!) There was also, in the original plans, a Runway 8, which was to be a grass strip running parallel to and just to the north of Runway 1. Runway 8 was certainly never used, as the opening of the airfield before it was properly ready meant that the terminals (tents, then prefabs) and aircraft parking took over that area. All the other seven runways were apparently used at some point, but clearly some of them were not used much and quickly fell out of use as the airfield developed.
By: longshot
- 31st May 2018 at 12:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Northside tents had long gone, probably before the end of 1946. The Pan Am 707-121 (domestic model, short fin) is possibly photographed from the passengers friends waving base opposite the Green Dragon canteen, Northside. BOAC DC-7C in background. The Aeroflot Tu-104 is in the Central area. Probably 1958
By: longshot
- 31st May 2018 at 12:28Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Adrian...I think your map is early to mid-1960s...T3 there but not T1. Not heard of grass Runway 8 before...the bulge in the northern taxiway which was the Northside apron was there very early on. (there was a plan for another triangle of 3 runways north of the Bath Road)
I believe the impatience of Pan Am and AOA to use Heathrow rather than Hurn was the reason for the tents...the runways were ready but no terminal building
By: Firebird
- 31st May 2018 at 13:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Living on the approach to Northolt I remember the large gasometer at South Harrow having a big 'NO' painted on the side. This was either 'NO for Northolt' or a 'NO this in not London Airport' as there was a similar gasometer at Southall on the LAP approach.
LOL...
The gasometer in Southall is still there, and still showing the now faded LH in big letters on the side.
The LO and LH were painted on the sides in direct view of both approaches after the infamous Pan-Am 707 landing at RAF Northolt in 1960, and after a Lufthansa 707 tried to do the same thing a few years later (PIC may have been an-ex Luftwaffe bomber pilot relying on old memory of the area though ;))
New
By: Anonymous
- 31st May 2018 at 13:11Permalink- Edited 14th June 2020 at 08:19
The doubtless apocryphal story I heard was they painted LHR and an arrow pointing in the right direction on top of the Southall gasometer. Unfortunately, each time the gas depleted the top gradually rotated clockwise and eventually pointed towards Northolt.
By: Firebird
- 31st May 2018 at 13:30Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The houses match the group next to the Immigration Centre entrance opposite the REGUS hotel, as you say west of Hatch Lane...the B-29s alignment isn't so bad...maybe there was a crosswind and LAPs runway were wide :-)
I reckon curved approach.....maybe Harmondsworth village was a no-over fly on that approach, even back then?
By: Firebird
- 31st May 2018 at 13:39Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The doubtless apocryphal story I heard was they painted LHR and an arrow pointing in the right direction on top of the Southall gasometer. Unfortunately, each time the gas depleted the top gradually rotated clockwise and eventually pointed towards Northolt.
Very much apocryphal.
The Southall and South Harrow Gas Holders are not telescopic Gas Holders, they are/were fixed 'waterless' structures, 300ft high and built in the 1930's. They thus did not go up and down or rotate. In fact even the traditional Victorian telescopic gas holders never rotated, they just moved up and down along fixed vertical guide rails.
By: ianwoodward9
- 31st May 2018 at 15:43Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This an aerial view of North Side taken by the RAF on 7 June 1946, a week after its official opening. I'll post an extract of this photo later.
Meantime, I have added a red line in the bottom right-hand corner, which is Cain's Lane coming up from the Great South West Road.
Cain's Lane then ends at the junction with Heathrow Road, which is shown by the red dashes coming up from the bottom of the photograph.
From the junction of the two roads onwards, it was called Heathrow Road up to the Bath Road, which crosses the photo from left to right. It almost 'disappears' where the north runway and the taxi-track were built but can still be made out.
By: ianwoodward9
- 31st May 2018 at 16:20Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This is a bit closer again, with some red markings.
What's left of the old Heathrow Road (coming from Cain's Lane) is in the bottom left-hand corner. The road marked "A" is, I assume, Sipson Road. At its junction with Bath Road, I have put a red question mark - is that the Three Magpies pub?
Further east along Bath Road is another red question mark. I think this is the Bricklayers Arms (thanks for that information, longshot), later the Air Hostess pub. It appears to be opposite the entrance to the "new air terminal", which would be about right.
I've surrounded what seems to be the "new air terminal" itself with a red line.
I think that the road off Bath Road marked 'B' in the top right-hand corner must be New Road.
By: Mark12
- 31st May 2018 at 19:15Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Firebird:-
The gasometer in Southall is still there, and still showing the now faded LH in big letters on the side.
The NO and LH were painted on the sides in direct view of both approaches after the infamous Pan-Am 707 landing at RAF Northolt in 1960, and after a Lufthansa 707 tried to do the same thing a few years later
By: ianwoodward9
- 2nd June 2018 at 12:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The above report says the two aircraft arrived in 'driving rain' and that the passengers got through customs and immigration (and the inevitable press on the 'opening' day) and into Central London "within an hour and forty-five minutes". This was contrasted with the "four to five hours consumed in getting to London from Hurn".
Despite the "inferior physical facilities" (described elsewhere in the article as "exotic-looking" and "crude"), the processing of passengers (described by one Pan Am official as "expeditious") was contrasted with New York where "interminable delays (were) met by passengers". Whether this was a one-off for the opening services or the continuing experience of passengers isn't clear.
To support something mentioned earlier (by longshot, I think), Sir Henry Self (Permanent Secretary at the Ministry of Civil Aviation) congratulated the American airlines for pushing for the move from Hurn on the promised date "despite the efforts of minor officials in his Ministry to delay the event until buildings could be constructed for the reception of passengers". Whether you think that "minor" civil servants were the only stumbling block, I leave to you.
By: ianwoodward9
- 2nd June 2018 at 12:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The passengers on that first Pan Am flight (aboard Clipper London) included the American Wightman Cup tennis team, coming to play against the British team in mid-June. As you would imagine, this was the first match between the two teams since 1939, so this alone would have interested the press contingent in London.
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By: Mark12 - 31st May 2018 at 07:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I guess it would be circa 1957 getting the calls that a Boeing 707 and a Tu104 could be viewed at the Hayes side of London Airport, albeit a photographic stretch for the simple camera to hand.
Am I imagining it but weren't there still military style 'arrivals' marquees in this area at this time?
Living on the approach to Northolt I remember the large gasometer at South Harrow having a big 'NO' painted on the side. This was either 'NO for Northolt' or a 'NO this in not London Airport' as there was a similar gasometer at Southall on the LAP approach.
Mark
Posts: 860
By: ianwoodward9 - 31st May 2018 at 10:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for all the various bits of information in response to my earlier questions - much appreciated.
Though there had been flights since the beginning of the year, when it was handed over from the RAF, "London's New Air Terminal" officially opened on Friday, 31 May 1946 -72 years ago this very day. The photograph below appeared in an American newspaper the beginning of the following week - I just love the spade stuck into the earth in the right foreground:
Posts: 860
By: ianwoodward9 - 31st May 2018 at 10:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And surely those are RAF roundels on the caravans?
Isn't that the "Air Hostess" pub to the right of centre in the background? It was called something different in 1946, though, I think
Posts: 549
By: Lazy8 - 31st May 2018 at 12:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
[ATTACH=CONFIG]260764[/ATTACH]
Here's a map from the late 1950s, I think. You can see the runways are numbered 1,2,5,6,7. Confusingly, I have also seen other maps where the numbers are in a different order! On this map, the two 'missing' runways are the obvious 15L/33R, which was presumably Runway 3, and the short runway, parallel to Runway 6, running from the Central Area out through Traffic Blocks 11 and 2 (which was presumably Runway 4 in this numberring, but which shows on some early maps as Runway 7). My understanding is that this short runway was to be used for takeoffs only, heading northwest (given that it points almost directly at Langley Airfield, it's tempting to make a connection with BSAA aircraft hopping over the hedge for maintenance, but that may be an assumption too far!) There was also, in the original plans, a Runway 8, which was to be a grass strip running parallel to and just to the north of Runway 1. Runway 8 was certainly never used, as the opening of the airfield before it was properly ready meant that the terminals (tents, then prefabs) and aircraft parking took over that area. All the other seven runways were apparently used at some point, but clearly some of them were not used much and quickly fell out of use as the airfield developed.
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By: longshot - 31st May 2018 at 12:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Northside tents had long gone, probably before the end of 1946. The Pan Am 707-121 (domestic model, short fin) is possibly photographed from the passengers friends waving base opposite the Green Dragon canteen, Northside. BOAC DC-7C in background. The Aeroflot Tu-104 is in the Central area. Probably 1958
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By: longshot - 31st May 2018 at 12:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Adrian...I think your map is early to mid-1960s...T3 there but not T1. Not heard of grass Runway 8 before...the bulge in the northern taxiway which was the Northside apron was there very early on. (there was a plan for another triangle of 3 runways north of the Bath Road)
I believe the impatience of Pan Am and AOA to use Heathrow rather than Hurn was the reason for the tents...the runways were ready but no terminal building
Posts: 2,108
By: Firebird - 31st May 2018 at 13:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
LOL...
The gasometer in Southall is still there, and still showing the now faded LH in big letters on the side.
The LO and LH were painted on the sides in direct view of both approaches after the infamous Pan-Am 707 landing at RAF Northolt in 1960, and after a Lufthansa 707 tried to do the same thing a few years later (PIC may have been an-ex Luftwaffe bomber pilot relying on old memory of the area though ;))
By: Anonymous - 31st May 2018 at 13:11 Permalink - Edited 14th June 2020 at 08:19
The doubtless apocryphal story I heard was they painted LHR and an arrow pointing in the right direction on top of the Southall gasometer. Unfortunately, each time the gas depleted the top gradually rotated clockwise and eventually pointed towards Northolt.
Posts: 1,707
By: longshot - 31st May 2018 at 13:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Air Hostess pub on the Bath Road was formerly the Bricklayers Arms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Heathrow_Airport
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By: Firebird - 31st May 2018 at 13:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I reckon curved approach.....maybe Harmondsworth village was a no-over fly on that approach, even back then?
See this markup of relevant positions in photo.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]260770[/ATTACH]
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By: Firebird - 31st May 2018 at 13:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Very much apocryphal.
The Southall and South Harrow Gas Holders are not telescopic Gas Holders, they are/were fixed 'waterless' structures, 300ft high and built in the 1930's. They thus did not go up and down or rotate. In fact even the traditional Victorian telescopic gas holders never rotated, they just moved up and down along fixed vertical guide rails.
Posts: 860
By: ianwoodward9 - 31st May 2018 at 15:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This an aerial view of North Side taken by the RAF on 7 June 1946, a week after its official opening. I'll post an extract of this photo later.
Meantime, I have added a red line in the bottom right-hand corner, which is Cain's Lane coming up from the Great South West Road.
Cain's Lane then ends at the junction with Heathrow Road, which is shown by the red dashes coming up from the bottom of the photograph.
From the junction of the two roads onwards, it was called Heathrow Road up to the Bath Road, which crosses the photo from left to right. It almost 'disappears' where the north runway and the taxi-track were built but can still be made out.
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By: ianwoodward9 - 31st May 2018 at 16:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Here's the extract from the above photograph:
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By: ianwoodward9 - 31st May 2018 at 16:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This is a bit closer again, with some red markings.
What's left of the old Heathrow Road (coming from Cain's Lane) is in the bottom left-hand corner. The road marked "A" is, I assume, Sipson Road. At its junction with Bath Road, I have put a red question mark - is that the Three Magpies pub?
Further east along Bath Road is another red question mark. I think this is the Bricklayers Arms (thanks for that information, longshot), later the Air Hostess pub. It appears to be opposite the entrance to the "new air terminal", which would be about right.
I've surrounded what seems to be the "new air terminal" itself with a red line.
I think that the road off Bath Road marked 'B' in the top right-hand corner must be New Road.
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By: ianwoodward9 - 31st May 2018 at 17:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry, got interrupted.
Or is that the location of the Three Magpies?
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By: Mark12 - 31st May 2018 at 19:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Firebird:-
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By: Firebird - 31st May 2018 at 20:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I drive past the Southall one everyday on way to work ;)
A Waitrose supermarket now stands on the site of the old South Harrow one, which was demolished in the mid 80's from memory.
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By: ianwoodward9 - 2nd June 2018 at 11:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Regarding the official opening of Heathrow, here's the headline in an American newspaper (dateline 31 May 1946) - 7 tents and 3 trailers !
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By: ianwoodward9 - 2nd June 2018 at 12:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The above report says the two aircraft arrived in 'driving rain' and that the passengers got through customs and immigration (and the inevitable press on the 'opening' day) and into Central London "within an hour and forty-five minutes". This was contrasted with the "four to five hours consumed in getting to London from Hurn".
Despite the "inferior physical facilities" (described elsewhere in the article as "exotic-looking" and "crude"), the processing of passengers (described by one Pan Am official as "expeditious") was contrasted with New York where "interminable delays (were) met by passengers". Whether this was a one-off for the opening services or the continuing experience of passengers isn't clear.
To support something mentioned earlier (by longshot, I think), Sir Henry Self (Permanent Secretary at the Ministry of Civil Aviation) congratulated the American airlines for pushing for the move from Hurn on the promised date "despite the efforts of minor officials in his Ministry to delay the event until buildings could be constructed for the reception of passengers". Whether you think that "minor" civil servants were the only stumbling block, I leave to you.
Posts: 860
By: ianwoodward9 - 2nd June 2018 at 12:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The passengers on that first Pan Am flight (aboard Clipper London) included the American Wightman Cup tennis team, coming to play against the British team in mid-June. As you would imagine, this was the first match between the two teams since 1939, so this alone would have interested the press contingent in London.