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By: - 14th July 2007 at 21:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Probably wasting your time European, sadly the UK government is being very quiet about the CVF program and the French are wavering over going ahead with PA2 themselves.
The whole program has turned into a farce with the main outcome being the destruction of the RN as a capable blue water navy.
By: - 14th July 2007 at 22:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There was something on one of the French news agencies this week that suggested that the new French government are not looking to sign off on it until next year anyway regardless of what Brown does :(
By: - 14th July 2007 at 22:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I will just add my dismay to this thread. As already stated the entire program has become a joke. It is a demonstration of the indecisiveness of the UK government towards major defense programs that has existed for nearly a decade now, The same constant delaying can be seen with what used to be the FSC program. Its pathetic, expensive and highly damaging to the UK armed forces. I would not at all surprised to see the CVF project die a death, it was realy a product of Blairs interventionist foreign policy, Browns on the other hand seems to be 'RUN AWAY!!!'.
By: - 14th July 2007 at 22:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There was something on one of the French news agencies this week that suggested that the new French government are not looking to sign off on it until next year anyway regardless of what Brown does :(
Yeah I saw that as well, considering the only way the carrier's are going to be built is with French money and input it is worrying development. At best it means yet more delays.
The only good news I have seen recently is the MOD is considering the purchase of a couple of F35 from the initial LRIP batch allowing testing to start in 2008.
By: - 14th July 2007 at 22:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I will just add my dismay to this thread. As already stated the entire program has become a joke. It is a demonstration of the indecisiveness of the UK government towards major defense programs that has existed for nearly a decade now, The same constant delaying can be seen with what used to be the FSC program. Its pathetic, expensive and highly damaging to the UK armed forces. I would not at all surprised to see the CVF project die a death, it was realy a product of Blairs interventionist foreign policy, Browns on the other hand seems to be 'RUN AWAY!!!'.
What really frustrates me is every time somebody asks a government official about British defence purchasing they proudly say they are going to buy the aircraft carriers. They have been saying this as a stock answer for the last ten years now and frankly its wearing thin!
By: - 14th July 2007 at 22:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Times is reporting it might happen next week. I'm optimistic. :) And really it doesn't matter if it has been ten years because if there are two massive 70000 tonnes CVFs in the Royal Navy it will be in a different league to now.
By: - 14th July 2007 at 22:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Times is reporting it might happen next week. I'm optimistic. :) And really it doesn't matter if it has been ten years because if there are two massive 70000 tonnes CVFs in the Royal Navy it will be in a different league to now.
I hope the Times is right Rob but we have been here before.
Lets hope it isn't another fudge (like the previous split development plan).
By: - 14th July 2007 at 23:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I hope the Times is right Rob but we have been here before.Lets hope it isn't another fudge (like the previous split development plan).
Again, +1 on that, reports saying 'in the coming weeks' have been appearing for years. The very fact that they have now reached 70,000 tonnes just adds further concern to their political survival as it means costs have gone up and that they have become even bigger cancellation targets.
By: - 15th July 2007 at 07:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Scotland on Sunday is reporting an order will be made in the next few days.
Links.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/article2072532.ece
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1102642007
By: - 15th July 2007 at 09:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The target of 2015 for Marine Nationale is gone. I think France don't have PA2 in service when De Gaulle go to long maintenance.
By: - 15th July 2007 at 11:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well I have had a look at the reports and there is a lot of talk about saving ship building in Scotland and basing the carriers in Scotland but nothing about England.
Personally I think the Labour party has been hell bent on destroying any shipping infrastructure in England in favour of Scotland. Considering 83% of the population doesn't live in Scotland that does come accross as a bit unfair.
They certainly have been gunning for Devenport and Portsmouth two vital but English yard facilities.
By: - 15th July 2007 at 12:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't know how they could back out now...........:rolleyes:
With the greatest of ease.:(
By: - 15th July 2007 at 12:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do u mean that tensions between Scotland (SNP) and England could give problems in the next future (20-30 ans)?
It seems that the CVF will be build and will have the homeport in Scotland as well the nuclear submarine.
They will be the flagship of the future Caledonian Repubblic Navy? :p :p
By: - 15th July 2007 at 12:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well I have had a look at the reports and there is a lot of talk about saving ship building in Scotland and basing the carriers in Scotland but nothing about England.Personally I think the Labour party has been hell bent on destroying any shipping infrastructure in England in favour of Scotland. Considering 83% of the population doesn't live in Scotland that does come accross as a bit unfair.
They certainly have been gunning for Devenport and Portsmouth two vital but English yard facilities.
I think that is a slightly unfair depiction, the Astutes and the SSBN(R)s will be built in Barrow-in-Furness and two of those is worth about 1 CVF. The CVFs will be partly built in Portsmouth and if this is a national build strategy probably also in Barrow-in-Furness. The Type 45s are partly built in Portsmouth. And of course much of the equipment (MT30s for example) will come from "southern UK". :) But really I dislike this "breakdown" of percentage terms of defence projects , I certainly don't want a Canadian situation.
By: - 15th July 2007 at 12:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Haha, very funny. Obviously not, so that's a very daft thing to say.sealord, as I said I want odds on the project going ahead from everyone who is sceptical. If people refuse to give odds, all I can say is that I think they're hedging their bets and don't want to say it will happen and then see it not.
Everyone loves to say "told you so" when something goes wrong. :cool:
Frankly I think its 50/50, the new government with its distinctly unsubtle hints at a change in foreign policy, combined with the complexities of working with the french and the massive growth the design has gone through (nearly 50% since its inception:eek: ) work against it. However the ever aging nature of the Invincible's and the Harriers as well as a knowledge that any loss of the Falkland Islands would destroy the electability of the governing party for decades should work in the programs favor as should the need to keep the UK military ship building industry at least vaguely alive. Either way I dont gamble so you wont be seeing my money.;)
By: - 15th July 2007 at 13:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Will there be build cooperation with France? No indication in the article. And timetables seem to be falling apart now with the UK apparently eager to get going and France letting themselves time.
Posts: 315
By: European - 14th July 2007 at 19:21
The old 3d about the future british and french aircraft carriers seems to be lost.
So, I start a new one.