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By: - 5th July 2005 at 00:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://pakistantimes.net/2005/07/05/top16.htm
Pakistan China launch F22-P frigates project
Pakistan Times Wire Service
BEIJING (China): Pakistan and China here Monday launched a joint project to build four F22P Frigates.
The launching ceremony was attended by the Chief of Pakistan Navy Admiral Shahid Karimullah and senior officials of China's People Liberation Army.
Defence sources told 'Pakistan Times' the project is part of the on-going cooperation between the two countries in the Defence sector.
The project will be implemented under an agreement already signed by the two sides that includes technology transfer to Pakistan for building frigates.
Admiral Shahid Karimullah who arrived here this morning, is scheduled to meet his Chinese counterpart and the Chinese Defence Minister to discuss matters of common interests, aimed at further strengthening cooperation between the two navies.
By: - 5th July 2005 at 03:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Anyone have a goood site on the F-22P frigates and whats on them?
By: - 5th July 2005 at 03:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
ok this is basically celebrating the fact the f22p design is completed as the link indicates.
latest F-22P info
By: - 5th July 2005 at 06:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So when exactly is the construction supposed to begin? I would assume it would take 2-3 years for it to be completed at the least and 4 years before it is commissioned. Even if they start now the first one will only be ready by 2009 and the fourth by 2012-13. Would the current PN ships last till then? They would be well over 40 years old. PN would also need more ships to replace the out going six. Unless they find some old ships in the market PN would be stuck with just 4 F-22p after 2010-12.
By: - 5th July 2005 at 11:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The F-22P will be an out-dated ship by that date, sorta like buying a Perry calss these days with it's original fit. But I will say this, those ships are good and have a fairly good balance of weapons and electronics. Should be intereesting to see what Pakistan will do with them, Thailand have done wonders with them!
By: - 5th July 2005 at 16:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The F-22P will be an out-dated ship by that date, sorta like buying a Perry calss these days with it's original fit. But I will say this, those ships are good and have a fairly good balance of weapons and electronics. Should be intereesting to see what Pakistan will do with them, Thailand have done wonders with them!
I suppose the whole point is to establish an indigenous shipbuilding industry capable of producing frigated sized ships, never mind the outdated design.
By: - 5th July 2005 at 18:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What makes the F-22P an outdated design?
By: - 5th July 2005 at 19:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I suppose the whole point is to establish an indigenous shipbuilding industry capable of producing frigated sized ships, never mind the outdated design.
Too risky especially considering how PN needs vessels asap and is short on $$. If you want to improve your local SYs, you can always start out by building some OPV which most SYs including china's can help you build for 20 million each, then move onto frigates.
What makes the F-22P an outdated design?
Dont know what he meant maybe the fact that its based on JW? IMO the major problem is the fact that vessel is not major improved over type 21s infact you can argue that latter is superior to it (TAS, Decent radar, phalanx, harpoon).
By: - 5th July 2005 at 20:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The F-22p would have chinese radar and EW suite which would mean that technologically it will still be behind the tariq class. I am not sure how C-802 stacks up against harpoons, they have almost the same range. Also F-22p has limited space due to smaller hull and hence upgradation will be limited.
By: - 5th July 2005 at 21:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
my prediction never is wrong. I stated much before everyone that F-22P construction has yet to begin and i will give 4 or 5 years to all the ships induction with later two much advanced than the first two. and from there on continous ship building. and technology just wait untill they entere service.
By: - 6th July 2005 at 17:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
my prediction never is wrong. I stated much before everyone that F-22P construction has yet to begin and i will give 4 or 5 years to all the ships induction with later two much advanced than the first two. and from there on continous ship building. and technology just wait untill they entere service.
lmao right it just like article said, as i said b4 this is just celebrating the launch of the project (basically the end of design phase) now comes the hard part PN actually finding a way to pay for it.
By: - 6th July 2005 at 18:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It would be good if they could release the specs for the modified chinese ship.
By: - 6th July 2005 at 18:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What makes the F-22P an outdated design?
Hudong Shipyard began to build the Type 052H2G missile frigate in the late 1980s. The Type 053H2G (NATO codename: Jiangwei class) is a multirole missile frigate and was introduced in the early 1990s by the PLA Navy as the successor to the obsolete Jianghu class frigate. From the fifth ship of the class, the frigate was upgraded to the Type 053H3 (NATO codename: Jiangwei-II class) with improved weapon systems and sensors. Despite being described as modest in term of technology and capability, the Jiangwei class is well competent for a range of missions in offshore waters including surface strike, antisubmarine warfare, costal patrol, fire support, and other general duties. The excellent performance-price ratio made the frigate a low cost, yet effective solution. The Jiangwei class provides the PLA Navy with a cost efficient solution to replace the bulk of older warships in its surface fleet.
The F22P as intented for Pakistan is a further incremental development of the Typ 053H3. This means the basic design of the ship dates back to the late 1980s. By the time these ships are available to PN, the basic design is 20 years old, as are most of its systems. I suspect that - compared to other designs, including Chinese Type 054 - the F22P does not have advanced signature reduction features (i.e. not much by way of reduced RCS, thermal and noise signature.) and it may well be lacking in the area of damage control features.
Still, compared to the ex-RN Type 21, these ships will be new and have a balanced armament. All will have 2x4 SSM, an 8-round SAM launcher. Only half the Type 21 have a SAM (in combination with light cannon on the hangar), and only half the Type 21 have 2x2 Harpoon (incombination with a Phalanx CiWS on the hangar). So, IMHO the F22P will give greater operational flexibility to PN than Type 21s (Amazon) and Type 12s (Leander).
By: - 6th July 2005 at 19:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Still, compared to the ex-RN Type 21, these ships will be new and have a balanced armament. All will have 2x4 SSM, an 8-round SAM launcher. Only half the Type 21 have a SAM (in combination with light cannon on the hangar), and only half the Type 21 have 2x2 Harpoon (incombination with a Phalanx CiWS on the hangar). So, IMHO the F22P will give greater operational flexibility to PN than Type 21s (Amazon) and Type 12s (Leander).
well 6 amazon costed 90 million to purchase while just hull for f22p alone will cost 120+ million. Anyway its worth noting that f22p has no torpedoes, just ukr. hull mounted sonar (rather doubftul about this since JW doesnt have a sonar) and doesnt have a decent radar compared to Type 21.
By: - 7th July 2005 at 01:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
lmao right it just like article said, as i said b4 this is just celebrating the launch of the project (basically the end of design phase) now comes the hard part PN actually finding a way to pay for it.
Pak only initiate and sign for things which it can successfully finish it. so if it construction is launched it will be completed well on time. money is not a problem for this now. another thing to tell about. introducing new weopons (e.g missiles) for PN at this time is moot point as coalation navy will be ruling the Indian ocean untill 2010 alteast. and they dont want to reveal things now when ears and eyes are watching. thats why one important test was postponed last october.
this project is just for obtaining ship building expertize and upgrading local infrastructure. weopons and sensors will come later .
By: - 7th July 2005 at 01:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hmmmmmm I don't think anybody doubts China's ability to build and deliver these ships. Especially since they are funding it. :)
So PN is supposed to be hiding better missiles till the foriegn navies leave? Well, I don't think USN will vacate the area anytime soon and french and RN ships also operate around the region so I guess PN is condemned to obsolete weapons and ships. The ship building part is right, but where will the sensors come from? I suppose china itself. UK or france won't sell the tech though they may give radars etc. So why not get them now?
By: - 7th July 2005 at 02:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Vikraal, JonS
do u guys know wat the radar and/or the EW suite is going to be? or if it is definitive that it will be of Chinese origin even? somehow it doesnt add up ...
its going to be less sophisticated then wat PN already has on the Amazon Class ... which they will be phasing out then ... so if thats true, wouldnt they just replace the gizmos off of one and put them on the other.
of course, in my opinion, the radar and other electronic stuff would be much more advanced then wat PN has in operations right now.
By: - 7th July 2005 at 03:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
time frame does not depend on China ability of building rather than how fast PN can learn to build them locally. right from the start of first ship building. and there is no point in acquiring systems from other sources now when better systems with TOT will be available later. and in the presence of coalation navies there is no chance of conflict for next 5 or 6 years so money is better spent now on developing and building assembly line for new missiles.
By: - 7th July 2005 at 17:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
well 6 amazon costed 90 million to purchase while just hull for f22p alone will cost 120+ million. Anyway its worth noting that f22p has no torpedoes, just ukr. hull mounted sonar (rather doubftul about this since JW doesnt have a sonar) and doesnt have a decent radar compared to Type 21.
So what? They will be newer hulls that will last longer and will be built locally so a fair chunk of that money will flow right back to Pakistan instead of to the UK if new used hulls are bought.
As for the torpedoes, didn't PN mount Swedish 400mm tubes on the ex-RN ships? In light of previous experience, don't you think it likely that these could be transferred to F22P? Or that additional tubes are bought from Sweden?
Who says chinese sonar and radar will be installed on new ships not built in China?
By: - 7th July 2005 at 19:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
All the articles I have seen claim that a Ukranian sonar will be installed along with chinese radar. If PN gets TOT for the radars, woudn't they prefer installing those on the newer ships too.
Posts: 7
By: Pak Revolution - 4th July 2005 at 08:18
Pakistan Navy to acquire modern frigates and maritime:- Karachi June 25, 2005 3:28:44 PM IST
Pakistan's Navy Chief, Admiral Shahid Karimullah has said that the federal government and the Naval Headquarters are putting in all their efforts to equip Pakistan Navy with modern weaponry and platforms.
He said that the acquisition process of the F-22P frigates from China and Orion P3C maritime reconnaissance aircraft from the US for maritime surveillance was making a significant headway.
He further said that after procuring all these state of the art platforms, it was the Pakistan Navy's responsibility to maintain them and use them for getting 'optimum advantage'.
"It is now our responsibility to maintain these invaluable naval assets and make their full use to gain optimum advantage", The Nation quoted him as saying.
Admiral Karimullah had earlier also said that China would be transferring sophisticated technology to Pakistan for manufacturing the F-22P Frigates.
The F-22P ships features various sensors for surveillance and detection of surface, sub-surface, and air contacts and corresponding engagement weapon systems, with all the sensors and weapons integrated through a command and control network, supported by the navigation, communication and ship-to-ship and ship-to-shore data link networks.
It is also capable of operating independently or as part of a task force in a multi-threat scenario and is well equipped for anti-submarine, anti-surface and anti-air warfare as well as self-defence capabilities. It is also well equipped to operate in areas contaminated with nuclear, biological and chemical agents.
Incidentally modernization of the Pakistani forces is not only restricted to its Navy. It is going in for a major upgrade of its defence hardware, which includes procurement of F-16 fighter jets, C-130 transport aircrafts and Orion surveillance aircrafts for maritime reconnaissance from the US, JF -17 Thunder jets and the latest state of the art F-22P Frigates from China. (ANI)
Please discuss if you want to in this thread: http://www.pakrev.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=464