By: medal64
- 5th June 2009 at 10:39Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
plz explain to me how you see that there is very little composite materials on this wreck??
Thanks
I couldn't see something composite at this wreck.Could you see something similar composite or fired composite gaps at anywhere.If you could please share with me!I have an F-35 picture shows how much composite materials have used at this aircraft!!!
[ATTACH]173530[/ATTACH]
New
Posts: 1,403
By: Otaku
- 5th June 2009 at 11:53Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
By: RSM55
- 5th June 2009 at 15:55Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I couldn't see something composite at this wreck.Could you see something similar composite or fired composite gaps at anywhere.If you could please share with me!I have an F-35 picture shows how much composite materials have used at this aircraft!!!
Funny.
My first reaction was exactly the opposite: "gosh this is VERY different from a Flanker".
At first glance I would say at least 10% of what I can see is either composite or composite-framed materials. One can even notice that by the burn-out color (composites have a specific aspect when undergoing high temperature low intensity burns).
The framing and wielding itself is also totally different as compared with your "normal" Flanker.
It seems that all these years buying and upgrading German, Swiss and indigenous factory tech has payed off finally.
Radar: AFAIK they simply removed it entirely (as all the ECM and antenna suites) before. One can see telltale after-burn openings and cuts in the airframe.
New
Posts: 1,403
By: Otaku
- 5th June 2009 at 20:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
My first reaction was exactly the opposite: "gosh this is VERY different from a Flanker".
At first glance I would say at least 10% of what I can see is either composite or composite-framed materials...The framing and wielding itself is also totally different as compared with your "normal" Flanker.
Fwiw, here's the '29KUB for comparison, I'd expect the '35BM to exceed composite usage as %age by weight
The (intact) welded seams on '904' denote electron-beam welding, as riveted joints would have buckled/cracked under the high temperatures.
By: haavarla
- 8th June 2009 at 21:36Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I couldn't see something composite at this wreck.Could you see something similar composite or fired composite gaps at anywhere.If you could please share with me!I have an F-35 picture shows how much composite materials have used at this aircraft!!!
[ATTACH]173530[/ATTACH]
Again, where can you possible see any composite or not on the Su-35"04" wreck?
Simple.
You can't see it, cause the fire have burned/vaporized it..
Originally Posted by RSM55
My first reaction was exactly the opposite: "gosh this is VERY different from a Flanker".
At first glance I would say at least 10% of what I can see is either composite or composite-framed materials...The framing and wielding itself is also totally different as compared with your "normal" Flanker.
Yes there seems to be missing some portion of the on the airframe structure, which suggest that it indeed had composite materials.
By: medal64
- 13th June 2009 at 22:21Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A nice chinese comment about the crash and it says Su-35 is the best aircarft after F-22!!!!
Chen Hu Soldiers: Su -35 damage test planes will have an impact on international competition
According to Russian media reports, Moscow time at 11 o'clock on April 26 about a Su -35 fighter prototype in the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Production Company airport take-off roll, the collision to the barrier, the aircraft burst into flames and completely destroyed. With test pilot ejection escape system successfully.
So what is a type -35 what kind of fighter? Russia's Su-what kind of expectations placed -35?. -35 Damage to the flight Soviet Union in the future advanced fighter what impact the international situation? This week, "Chen points, soldiers" will work with you to concern.
Chen Hu: A fighter aircraft accident, there damage is not very special thing. Prior to this, a lot of fighters also had a similar accident or failure, including the United States F-22 crash. -35 However, the Soviet Union, it is a test of the advanced fighter aircraft, but the Russian military equipment in the country and its exports have high hopes, therefore, it is in flight caused the damage will certainly be no small impact.
First of all, you may be concerned about the Soviet Union is -35 what kind of fighter? If you see pictures of it, more experienced enthusiasts soon will find its shape and the Soviet Union was like -27. Indeed, the Su-Su -35 to -27 is a member of the last family, and some media called it the Su family -27 "Terminator."
Russia to the Soviet Union known as the four generations of -35 + +-type aircraft, designated the West, mutatis mutandis, on behalf of methods, the Russian equivalent of four generations of machines of the three generations of aircraft to Western standards, the Russian equivalent of the Five Dynasties and the Western standard machine four generations machine. In that case, the so-called "fourth generation + +", according to Western standards should be regarded as third-generation semi-planes.
It is worth mentioning that, Russia Why do we need two "+" to the SU -35? In fact, Soviet Russia in order to express the performance of -35 over the western half of the three generations of fighters, so the four generations of the Soviet Union known as the -35 + + type. For example, in France the "gust", developed by the European Union "wind", which are internationally recognized three generations of a typical semi-planes. Russia believes that it is -35 in the Soviet Union to surpass the overall performance of the so-called third-generation semi-planes, so it called a four-generation + + such a title.
"Four generations + +" worthy of the name you
Chen Hu: In that case, this title is not true then? So we can take a closer look at the performance and characteristics of -35.
Now the most advanced fighter aircraft, such as the U.S. F-22, F-35, which is recognized by all four generations of a typical machine. A symbol of four generations of aircraft in general is one of the four major signs: stealth, supersonic cruise, super maneuverability, super-advanced airborne electronic systems, some people in the West it is called 4S. 4S standards with which all of the, at present only F-22, but the F-22 is now immediately to stop the.
In addition, F-35 actually have them in this part of the standard 4S. For example, F-35 has stealth ability.In addition, the electronic equipment it is quite advanced, so it at least two "S". As for the other two "S", F-35 is a supersonic cruise does not have the capacity; in mobility, in accordance with the comments now, F-35's mobility in general and the three generations of the same machine, so that the "S" do not have. Nevertheless, F-35 or the so-called fourth generation machine.
So then we will look at the -35 "four generations + +." The basic performance of its two prominent characteristics. First, it has the capacity of the supersonic cruise. -35 Should be said that the Soviet Union is the second F-22 and the Soviet Union was the MiG -31 interceptor, the world's third cruise with supersonic fighter capabilities. In other words, it has a "S". In addition, the mobility, the Soviet Union also have the -35 extraordinary mobility. It is mainly realized through two ways. First, its dynamic thrust vector system, the attention of the Soviet Union to see the end of the -35 engine nozzle, the end of its nozzle can be moved, the direction of jet can be adjusted. With this, it would have greatly improved mobility. In addition, Su -35 body a lot of aerodynamic control surfaces, that is, it is a lot of wings, small wings can be fixed. Well, the aerodynamic control surfaces of these fly-by-wire system through a system after the use and control, it can produce some extraordinary maneuverability. For example, an instant change point to the nose, and even the aircraft in flight could have a parallel course of the effect of mobile.This so-called super-mobility, it is said there will be fighting at close range is highly desirable.
From these two aspects, the Su-4S have -35 of them in fact two "S". Similarly, F-35 is also the two "S". So there is no stealth performance of -35, so Russia has not yet put it into the equivalent of the West's so-called fourth-generation fighters Five, but also more conservative. But it does than the average of three generations and three generations of aircraft to more than half a chip.
Chen Hu: before, the United States a number of research departments in the demonstration F-35 when their combat capability, air combat simulation was done. Simulation result of the new F-35 fighter jets before the big loss, when the opponent to do this simulation is the SU -35. From here we can see that the Soviet Union the overall combat capability of -35 should be said to be very superior. If we simply look at performance in terms of air combat, it should be said, it is only to the United States F-22 fighter-type advanced fighter. In addition, the fighter should be said that the electronic system is quite advanced. 4S we have just mentioned There is also a "S" is an advanced airborne electronic systems. An advanced airborne electronic systems or the core of what is marked on the aircraft is equipped with phased array fire control radar search. So the equipment is ready to -35 precisely, one Taiwan "snow," phased array airborne radar. From this perspective, it is actually accounted for 4S among three "S", and only a stealth performance difference.
So head -27 family members have a very strong set bombs. In accordance with the relevant media reports, the Soviet Union mounted -35 maximum capacity of 8 tons can be achieved, there are 12 plug-in points, which indicates that it can carry a lot of weapons. And as a result of aircraft size, and so can hold a lot of oil, it also has a range and combat radius on the major. It is said that it is not linked to the case of drop tank can reach a maximum range of 3600 kilometers, the linkage can be achieved when the drop tank 4500 kilometers. If converted into a combat radius, this would be 1500-2000 km. These features are quite prominent. This indicates that the aircraft's air combat performance, but also have strong long-range attack capability.
It is precisely because the Soviet Union was -35 superior performance, the Russian high hopes for this aircraft. In accordance with the Russian military that the next time they may be part of Su -35 fighter procurement. Zelin said the Russian air force commander-in-chief, prepared to allow two or three missions -35 learn how to use the Soviet Union. In fact, Russia has to -35 as a Russian Su-generation machines from four to five generations of a transition machine transition models. At the same time, exports of Russia's Su -35 pinned high hopes on the international market, it is said that some countries have already sent to the Soviet Union Order -35.
We can see that the SU -35 is a great level of performance "of a machine under the machine on top of million" posture. Therefore, once the international market, international markets may be US-made aircraft, a dominance of the state of forming a large impact.
Russia's efforts have suffered setbacks
Chen Hu: It is now, Su -35 prototype flight occurred during the events of this kind of damage, the first test flight will affect the SU -35 stereotypes, loaded out, the production time. In accordance with the present situation, it So I think that the -35 to delay the development process in at least six months to a year or even longer. Stereotypes test out equipment, production time will directly affect the delay of the Russian Air Force equipment. In other words, in the next period of time, the Russian Air Force's high hopes for this aircraft will not immediately enter the Air Force. Russian Air Force to wait for the new equipment that would further lengthen the cycle.
35 Test damaged the Soviet Union have a greater impact on events is the international competition of advanced fighter planes, as well as advanced warplanes of the impact of market share.
We know that in almost half a century after the time a fighter has been in the area of the Soviet Union (the United States and Russia) the situation of hegemony, the United States Department of the Department of Russian fighter planes and fight each other thunder.
20th century 60's, when the Soviet Union and the United States -21 MiG F-4 "Phantom" fighters for hegemony; to the 80's after the United States on F-15, F-16, F-18 and the Soviet Union Su -27 series, each series of -29 m for the limelight.
Since the 21st century, Russia inherited the Soviet Union, such a status. But its a plummeting economy, a substantial attenuation of the whole national strength. Under the circumstances, it is in the new machine there断档situation. At that time, the United States launched a new generation of F-22 and F-35 fighters, while Russia would only serve to keep the Soviet Union to improve and amend the -27 series of fighter aircraft.
Until the F-35 into the development phase, this state appears to be a little subtle changes. Because the United States in F-22 production after a certain amount of equipment, and the current F-22 is to determine the non-exports. As a result, the United States a large number of advanced fighters and equipment into the F-35, able to market into the future, is also vying for market share fighter F-35. At the same time, Russia's Su -35 fighter has entered the mid-and late stages of flight. Su -35 fighter in terms of overall performance, in some extent, the United States beyond the F-35. As a result, Russia in the downturn after a period of time, and finally there is hope in the pattern of international advanced fighter aircraft which made a re-positioned to -35 with the Soviet Union in the future advanced fighter to win a piece of the export market competitive.
And now, the prototype Su -35 damaged in flight, bound for Russia's ambition is a big blow. At the same time, to some extent, the United States will continue to maintain a dominance of the advanced fighters of the situation.
Damaged in the process of the prototype, there is another episode: the plane did not leave the ground state, the pilot ejected to use to escape the system. This from another angle -35 Su said that the ejection escape system performance indeed, but before that, it's the system there are a lot of outstanding performance. However, this is, after all, only a sub-system. A fighter can not escape the system by virtue of its performance has become the world's most advanced fighter planes, it is impossible to occupy so large an international market.
It appears that in the next five years or even longer, the Russian would like to re-establish it in the advanced fighter aircraft's position in this field, while the advanced fighter aircraft in the international export market, a share of the efforts to be a lot of setbacks.
By: haavarla
- 13th June 2009 at 23:17Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A nice chinese comment about the crash and it says Su-35 is the best aircarft after F-22!!!!
Chen Hu Soldiers: Su -35 damage test planes will have an impact on international competition
According to Russian media reports, Moscow time at 11 o'clock on April 26 about a Su -35 fighter prototype in the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Production Company airport take-off roll, the collision to the barrier, the aircraft burst into flames and completely destroyed. With test pilot ejection escape system successfully.
So what is a type -35 what kind of fighter? Russia's Su-what kind of expectations placed -35?. -35 Damage to the flight Soviet Union in the future advanced fighter what impact the international situation? This week, "Chen points, soldiers" will work with you to concern.
Chen Hu: A fighter aircraft accident, there damage is not very special thing. Prior to this, a lot of fighters also had a similar accident or failure, including the United States F-22 crash. -35 However, the Soviet Union, it is a test of the advanced fighter aircraft, but the Russian military equipment in the country and its exports have high hopes, therefore, it is in flight caused the damage will certainly be no small impact.
First of all, you may be concerned about the Soviet Union is -35 what kind of fighter? If you see pictures of it, more experienced enthusiasts soon will find its shape and the Soviet Union was like -27. Indeed, the Su-Su -35 to -27 is a member of the last family, and some media called it the Su family -27 "Terminator."
Russia to the Soviet Union known as the four generations of -35 + +-type aircraft, designated the West, mutatis mutandis, on behalf of methods, the Russian equivalent of four generations of machines of the three generations of aircraft to Western standards, the Russian equivalent of the Five Dynasties and the Western standard machine four generations machine. In that case, the so-called "fourth generation + +", according to Western standards should be regarded as third-generation semi-planes.
It is worth mentioning that, Russia Why do we need two "+" to the SU -35? In fact, Soviet Russia in order to express the performance of -35 over the western half of the three generations of fighters, so the four generations of the Soviet Union known as the -35 + + type. For example, in France the "gust", developed by the European Union "wind", which are internationally recognized three generations of a typical semi-planes. Russia believes that it is -35 in the Soviet Union to surpass the overall performance of the so-called third-generation semi-planes, so it called a four-generation + + such a title.
"Four generations + +" worthy of the name you
Chen Hu: In that case, this title is not true then? So we can take a closer look at the performance and characteristics of -35.
Now the most advanced fighter aircraft, such as the U.S. F-22, F-35, which is recognized by all four generations of a typical machine. A symbol of four generations of aircraft in general is one of the four major signs: stealth, supersonic cruise, super maneuverability, super-advanced airborne electronic systems, some people in the West it is called 4S. 4S standards with which all of the, at present only F-22, but the F-22 is now immediately to stop the.
In addition, F-35 actually have them in this part of the standard 4S. For example, F-35 has stealth ability.In addition, the electronic equipment it is quite advanced, so it at least two "S". As for the other two "S", F-35 is a supersonic cruise does not have the capacity; in mobility, in accordance with the comments now, F-35's mobility in general and the three generations of the same machine, so that the "S" do not have. Nevertheless, F-35 or the so-called fourth generation machine.
So then we will look at the -35 "four generations + +." The basic performance of its two prominent characteristics. First, it has the capacity of the supersonic cruise. -35 Should be said that the Soviet Union is the second F-22 and the Soviet Union was the MiG -31 interceptor, the world's third cruise with supersonic fighter capabilities. In other words, it has a "S". In addition, the mobility, the Soviet Union also have the -35 extraordinary mobility. It is mainly realized through two ways. First, its dynamic thrust vector system, the attention of the Soviet Union to see the end of the -35 engine nozzle, the end of its nozzle can be moved, the direction of jet can be adjusted. With this, it would have greatly improved mobility. In addition, Su -35 body a lot of aerodynamic control surfaces, that is, it is a lot of wings, small wings can be fixed. Well, the aerodynamic control surfaces of these fly-by-wire system through a system after the use and control, it can produce some extraordinary maneuverability. For example, an instant change point to the nose, and even the aircraft in flight could have a parallel course of the effect of mobile.This so-called super-mobility, it is said there will be fighting at close range is highly desirable.
From these two aspects, the Su-4S have -35 of them in fact two "S". Similarly, F-35 is also the two "S". So there is no stealth performance of -35, so Russia has not yet put it into the equivalent of the West's so-called fourth-generation fighters Five, but also more conservative. But it does than the average of three generations and three generations of aircraft to more than half a chip.
Chen Hu: before, the United States a number of research departments in the demonstration F-35 when their combat capability, air combat simulation was done. Simulation result of the new F-35 fighter jets before the big loss, when the opponent to do this simulation is the SU -35. From here we can see that the Soviet Union the overall combat capability of -35 should be said to be very superior. If we simply look at performance in terms of air combat, it should be said, it is only to the United States F-22 fighter-type advanced fighter. In addition, the fighter should be said that the electronic system is quite advanced. 4S we have just mentioned There is also a "S" is an advanced airborne electronic systems. An advanced airborne electronic systems or the core of what is marked on the aircraft is equipped with phased array fire control radar search. So the equipment is ready to -35 precisely, one Taiwan "snow," phased array airborne radar. From this perspective, it is actually accounted for 4S among three "S", and only a stealth performance difference.
So head -27 family members have a very strong set bombs. In accordance with the relevant media reports, the Soviet Union mounted -35 maximum capacity of 8 tons can be achieved, there are 12 plug-in points, which indicates that it can carry a lot of weapons. And as a result of aircraft size, and so can hold a lot of oil, it also has a range and combat radius on the major. It is said that it is not linked to the case of drop tank can reach a maximum range of 3600 kilometers, the linkage can be achieved when the drop tank 4500 kilometers. If converted into a combat radius, this would be 1500-2000 km. These features are quite prominent. This indicates that the aircraft's air combat performance, but also have strong long-range attack capability.
It is precisely because the Soviet Union was -35 superior performance, the Russian high hopes for this aircraft. In accordance with the Russian military that the next time they may be part of Su -35 fighter procurement. Zelin said the Russian air force commander-in-chief, prepared to allow two or three missions -35 learn how to use the Soviet Union. In fact, Russia has to -35 as a Russian Su-generation machines from four to five generations of a transition machine transition models. At the same time, exports of Russia's Su -35 pinned high hopes on the international market, it is said that some countries have already sent to the Soviet Union Order -35.
We can see that the SU -35 is a great level of performance "of a machine under the machine on top of million" posture. Therefore, once the international market, international markets may be US-made aircraft, a dominance of the state of forming a large impact.
Russia's efforts have suffered setbacks
Chen Hu: It is now, Su -35 prototype flight occurred during the events of this kind of damage, the first test flight will affect the SU -35 stereotypes, loaded out, the production time. In accordance with the present situation, it So I think that the -35 to delay the development process in at least six months to a year or even longer. Stereotypes test out equipment, production time will directly affect the delay of the Russian Air Force equipment. In other words, in the next period of time, the Russian Air Force's high hopes for this aircraft will not immediately enter the Air Force. Russian Air Force to wait for the new equipment that would further lengthen the cycle.
35 Test damaged the Soviet Union have a greater impact on events is the international competition of advanced fighter planes, as well as advanced warplanes of the impact of market share.
We know that in almost half a century after the time a fighter has been in the area of the Soviet Union (the United States and Russia) the situation of hegemony, the United States Department of the Department of Russian fighter planes and fight each other thunder.
20th century 60's, when the Soviet Union and the United States -21 MiG F-4 "Phantom" fighters for hegemony; to the 80's after the United States on F-15, F-16, F-18 and the Soviet Union Su -27 series, each series of -29 m for the limelight.
Since the 21st century, Russia inherited the Soviet Union, such a status. But its a plummeting economy, a substantial attenuation of the whole national strength. Under the circumstances, it is in the new machine there断档situation. At that time, the United States launched a new generation of F-22 and F-35 fighters, while Russia would only serve to keep the Soviet Union to improve and amend the -27 series of fighter aircraft.
Until the F-35 into the development phase, this state appears to be a little subtle changes. Because the United States in F-22 production after a certain amount of equipment, and the current F-22 is to determine the non-exports. As a result, the United States a large number of advanced fighters and equipment into the F-35, able to market into the future, is also vying for market share fighter F-35. At the same time, Russia's Su -35 fighter has entered the mid-and late stages of flight. Su -35 fighter in terms of overall performance, in some extent, the United States beyond the F-35. As a result, Russia in the downturn after a period of time, and finally there is hope in the pattern of international advanced fighter aircraft which made a re-positioned to -35 with the Soviet Union in the future advanced fighter to win a piece of the export market competitive.
And now, the prototype Su -35 damaged in flight, bound for Russia's ambition is a big blow. At the same time, to some extent, the United States will continue to maintain a dominance of the advanced fighters of the situation.
Damaged in the process of the prototype, there is another episode: the plane did not leave the ground state, the pilot ejected to use to escape the system. This from another angle -35 Su said that the ejection escape system performance indeed, but before that, it's the system there are a lot of outstanding performance. However, this is, after all, only a sub-system. A fighter can not escape the system by virtue of its performance has become the world's most advanced fighter planes, it is impossible to occupy so large an international market.
It appears that in the next five years or even longer, the Russian would like to re-establish it in the advanced fighter aircraft's position in this field, while the advanced fighter aircraft in the international export market, a share of the efforts to be a lot of setbacks.
By: Spacepope
- 14th June 2009 at 22:45Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Now that's what I call a beautiful finish (and may the person who leaked it RIP).
[ATTACH]173672[/ATTACH]
Saw a photo of another prototype painted like this in last month's AFM. Very nice.
Question: The AFM photo shows both rudders deflected full outboard (opposite directions). Did the SU-35 delete the SU-27's plank of an airbrake and just use control surfaces?
By: talltower
- 17th June 2009 at 12:42Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Agreed.
With the power of those 117S engine, its impossible to steer the aircraft in a straight line if one engine goes full and the other engine doesn't..
The fact that the engines on a Flanker are widely placed does not help at all.
It's all adios amigos and eject.
Thanks
Thrust asymmetry is the by-product.
You have no choice but to yank the eject lever and hope your K-36DM zero-zero ejector seat carries you safely out of your stricken Flanker.
Su-35 904 is a complete write off. Sukhoi & KNAAPO won't be pleased, and furthermore, the radar set on the Flanker was an Irbis (Russian = snow leopard) PESA radar set, the closest Russian equivalent to the Raptor's APG-77, which would give sufficient explanation about the molten magnesium housing material.
By: Deino
- 17th June 2009 at 13:27Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
... Asked about that prediction today, he told reporters that Sukhoi would have more information about first flight at the Farnborough air show next July.
äähhmmm ... as far as I'm not completely mad the "Farnborough air show next July" will be in 2010 !!!
I would understand the expression "next July" as being "next year's July" e.g July 2010.
July 2009 I would refer to as "this July".
I suppose it's the same as the English expression for 07:30 - we would call it "seven thirty" - but in Germany it would be "eight thirty" - e.g. thirty minutes TO eight.
The number of times I missed appointments in Germany because of that :eek:
It can get a bit confusing...... :confused:
On the other hand some English people would call tomorrow "this Thursday" i.e. the Thursday of THIS WEEK - whereas others would say "next Thursday" - i.e. the next Thursday to appear.
By: Tango III
- 17th June 2009 at 19:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No problem with Sukhois, says defence ministry
NEW DELHI: A joint probe by India and Russia into the crash of IAF's Sukhoi aircraft over Jaisalmer in April has given a clearance to the quality of
the fighter plane, indicating that the mishap took place due to human error. ( Watch )
"The joint probe by IAF and Russian experts into the Su-30MKI crash has found that there is no problem with the aircraft," top defence ministry officials said on Tuesday.
"The pilot of the aircraft is said to have inadvertently switched off the flight controls in the cockpit that apparently caused the crash," officials said.
The Su-30MKI, the frontline combat aircraft of the IAF, had crash while flying in a formation over Jaisalmer on April 30, in which both the pilot and co-pilot had ejected out.
While the pilot, Wing Commander S V Munje, bailed out safely, the co-pilot Wing Commander P S Nara died after ejecting out of the cockpit.
Immediately after the mishap, the IAF had ordered a court of inquiry, which was joined by 20 Russian experts from the original equipment manufacturers.
The probe, officials said, revealed that the ejection seat's "harness had broken" leading to loss of life.
"The court of inquiry has not yet completed compilation of its report. Whatever led to the fatality will come out once the report is submitted," they said.
However, to buttress the point, they said: "The safety record of Sukhois is almost unrivalled."
By: haavarla
- 17th June 2009 at 23:03Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes, the Su-35 lacks the air brake on all other Flanker variants.
I might add that this also help increase the internal fuel capasity on the
Su-35.
Also a new flight control system are put in use to deflect the rudders in opposite direction(airbrake).
I think it's mostly a software upgrade, but nevertheless it should function just like the older Flanker airbrake on the top.
Posts: 1,114
By: medal64 - 5th June 2009 at 10:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I couldn't see something composite at this wreck.Could you see something similar composite or fired composite gaps at anywhere.If you could please share with me!I have an F-35 picture shows how much composite materials have used at this aircraft!!!
[ATTACH]173530[/ATTACH]
Posts: 1,403
By: Otaku - 5th June 2009 at 11:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cheer-up everybody!!
Posts: 409
By: RSM55 - 5th June 2009 at 15:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Funny.
My first reaction was exactly the opposite: "gosh this is VERY different from a Flanker".
At first glance I would say at least 10% of what I can see is either composite or composite-framed materials. One can even notice that by the burn-out color (composites have a specific aspect when undergoing high temperature low intensity burns).
The framing and wielding itself is also totally different as compared with your "normal" Flanker.
It seems that all these years buying and upgrading German, Swiss and indigenous factory tech has payed off finally.
Radar: AFAIK they simply removed it entirely (as all the ECM and antenna suites) before. One can see telltale after-burn openings and cuts in the airframe.
Posts: 1,403
By: Otaku - 5th June 2009 at 20:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Fwiw, here's the '29KUB for comparison, I'd expect the '35BM to exceed composite usage as %age by weight
The (intact) welded seams on '904' denote electron-beam welding, as riveted joints would have buckled/cracked under the high temperatures.
Posts: 15
By: stambe_mig - 8th June 2009 at 18:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Unique picture of Su-35-4 before crash :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34348201@N04/3485937042/
Posts: 1,403
By: Otaku - 8th June 2009 at 20:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Now that's what I call a beautiful finish (and may the person who leaked it RIP).
[ATTACH]173672[/ATTACH]
Posts: 6,441
By: haavarla - 8th June 2009 at 21:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Again, where can you possible see any composite or not on the Su-35"04" wreck?
Simple.
You can't see it, cause the fire have burned/vaporized it..
Yes there seems to be missing some portion of the on the airframe structure, which suggest that it indeed had composite materials.
Thanks
Posts: 920
By: Griffon39 - 8th June 2009 at 21:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Jeebuz.. The Flanker is big :eek:
Posts: 1,114
By: medal64 - 13th June 2009 at 22:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A nice chinese comment about the crash and it says Su-35 is the best aircarft after F-22!!!!
Chen Hu Soldiers: Su -35 damage test planes will have an impact on international competition
According to Russian media reports, Moscow time at 11 o'clock on April 26 about a Su -35 fighter prototype in the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Production Company airport take-off roll, the collision to the barrier, the aircraft burst into flames and completely destroyed. With test pilot ejection escape system successfully.
So what is a type -35 what kind of fighter? Russia's Su-what kind of expectations placed -35?. -35 Damage to the flight Soviet Union in the future advanced fighter what impact the international situation? This week, "Chen points, soldiers" will work with you to concern.
Chen Hu: A fighter aircraft accident, there damage is not very special thing. Prior to this, a lot of fighters also had a similar accident or failure, including the United States F-22 crash. -35 However, the Soviet Union, it is a test of the advanced fighter aircraft, but the Russian military equipment in the country and its exports have high hopes, therefore, it is in flight caused the damage will certainly be no small impact.
First of all, you may be concerned about the Soviet Union is -35 what kind of fighter? If you see pictures of it, more experienced enthusiasts soon will find its shape and the Soviet Union was like -27. Indeed, the Su-Su -35 to -27 is a member of the last family, and some media called it the Su family -27 "Terminator."
Russia to the Soviet Union known as the four generations of -35 + +-type aircraft, designated the West, mutatis mutandis, on behalf of methods, the Russian equivalent of four generations of machines of the three generations of aircraft to Western standards, the Russian equivalent of the Five Dynasties and the Western standard machine four generations machine. In that case, the so-called "fourth generation + +", according to Western standards should be regarded as third-generation semi-planes.
It is worth mentioning that, Russia Why do we need two "+" to the SU -35? In fact, Soviet Russia in order to express the performance of -35 over the western half of the three generations of fighters, so the four generations of the Soviet Union known as the -35 + + type. For example, in France the "gust", developed by the European Union "wind", which are internationally recognized three generations of a typical semi-planes. Russia believes that it is -35 in the Soviet Union to surpass the overall performance of the so-called third-generation semi-planes, so it called a four-generation + + such a title.
"Four generations + +" worthy of the name you
Chen Hu: In that case, this title is not true then? So we can take a closer look at the performance and characteristics of -35.
Now the most advanced fighter aircraft, such as the U.S. F-22, F-35, which is recognized by all four generations of a typical machine. A symbol of four generations of aircraft in general is one of the four major signs: stealth, supersonic cruise, super maneuverability, super-advanced airborne electronic systems, some people in the West it is called 4S. 4S standards with which all of the, at present only F-22, but the F-22 is now immediately to stop the.
In addition, F-35 actually have them in this part of the standard 4S. For example, F-35 has stealth ability.In addition, the electronic equipment it is quite advanced, so it at least two "S". As for the other two "S", F-35 is a supersonic cruise does not have the capacity; in mobility, in accordance with the comments now, F-35's mobility in general and the three generations of the same machine, so that the "S" do not have. Nevertheless, F-35 or the so-called fourth generation machine.
So then we will look at the -35 "four generations + +." The basic performance of its two prominent characteristics. First, it has the capacity of the supersonic cruise. -35 Should be said that the Soviet Union is the second F-22 and the Soviet Union was the MiG -31 interceptor, the world's third cruise with supersonic fighter capabilities. In other words, it has a "S". In addition, the mobility, the Soviet Union also have the -35 extraordinary mobility. It is mainly realized through two ways. First, its dynamic thrust vector system, the attention of the Soviet Union to see the end of the -35 engine nozzle, the end of its nozzle can be moved, the direction of jet can be adjusted. With this, it would have greatly improved mobility. In addition, Su -35 body a lot of aerodynamic control surfaces, that is, it is a lot of wings, small wings can be fixed. Well, the aerodynamic control surfaces of these fly-by-wire system through a system after the use and control, it can produce some extraordinary maneuverability. For example, an instant change point to the nose, and even the aircraft in flight could have a parallel course of the effect of mobile.This so-called super-mobility, it is said there will be fighting at close range is highly desirable.
From these two aspects, the Su-4S have -35 of them in fact two "S". Similarly, F-35 is also the two "S". So there is no stealth performance of -35, so Russia has not yet put it into the equivalent of the West's so-called fourth-generation fighters Five, but also more conservative. But it does than the average of three generations and three generations of aircraft to more than half a chip.
Chen Hu: before, the United States a number of research departments in the demonstration F-35 when their combat capability, air combat simulation was done. Simulation result of the new F-35 fighter jets before the big loss, when the opponent to do this simulation is the SU -35. From here we can see that the Soviet Union the overall combat capability of -35 should be said to be very superior. If we simply look at performance in terms of air combat, it should be said, it is only to the United States F-22 fighter-type advanced fighter. In addition, the fighter should be said that the electronic system is quite advanced. 4S we have just mentioned There is also a "S" is an advanced airborne electronic systems. An advanced airborne electronic systems or the core of what is marked on the aircraft is equipped with phased array fire control radar search. So the equipment is ready to -35 precisely, one Taiwan "snow," phased array airborne radar. From this perspective, it is actually accounted for 4S among three "S", and only a stealth performance difference.
So head -27 family members have a very strong set bombs. In accordance with the relevant media reports, the Soviet Union mounted -35 maximum capacity of 8 tons can be achieved, there are 12 plug-in points, which indicates that it can carry a lot of weapons. And as a result of aircraft size, and so can hold a lot of oil, it also has a range and combat radius on the major. It is said that it is not linked to the case of drop tank can reach a maximum range of 3600 kilometers, the linkage can be achieved when the drop tank 4500 kilometers. If converted into a combat radius, this would be 1500-2000 km. These features are quite prominent. This indicates that the aircraft's air combat performance, but also have strong long-range attack capability.
It is precisely because the Soviet Union was -35 superior performance, the Russian high hopes for this aircraft. In accordance with the Russian military that the next time they may be part of Su -35 fighter procurement. Zelin said the Russian air force commander-in-chief, prepared to allow two or three missions -35 learn how to use the Soviet Union. In fact, Russia has to -35 as a Russian Su-generation machines from four to five generations of a transition machine transition models. At the same time, exports of Russia's Su -35 pinned high hopes on the international market, it is said that some countries have already sent to the Soviet Union Order -35.
We can see that the SU -35 is a great level of performance "of a machine under the machine on top of million" posture. Therefore, once the international market, international markets may be US-made aircraft, a dominance of the state of forming a large impact.
Russia's efforts have suffered setbacks
Chen Hu: It is now, Su -35 prototype flight occurred during the events of this kind of damage, the first test flight will affect the SU -35 stereotypes, loaded out, the production time. In accordance with the present situation, it So I think that the -35 to delay the development process in at least six months to a year or even longer. Stereotypes test out equipment, production time will directly affect the delay of the Russian Air Force equipment. In other words, in the next period of time, the Russian Air Force's high hopes for this aircraft will not immediately enter the Air Force. Russian Air Force to wait for the new equipment that would further lengthen the cycle.
35 Test damaged the Soviet Union have a greater impact on events is the international competition of advanced fighter planes, as well as advanced warplanes of the impact of market share.
We know that in almost half a century after the time a fighter has been in the area of the Soviet Union (the United States and Russia) the situation of hegemony, the United States Department of the Department of Russian fighter planes and fight each other thunder.
20th century 60's, when the Soviet Union and the United States -21 MiG F-4 "Phantom" fighters for hegemony; to the 80's after the United States on F-15, F-16, F-18 and the Soviet Union Su -27 series, each series of -29 m for the limelight.
Since the 21st century, Russia inherited the Soviet Union, such a status. But its a plummeting economy, a substantial attenuation of the whole national strength. Under the circumstances, it is in the new machine there断档situation. At that time, the United States launched a new generation of F-22 and F-35 fighters, while Russia would only serve to keep the Soviet Union to improve and amend the -27 series of fighter aircraft.
Until the F-35 into the development phase, this state appears to be a little subtle changes. Because the United States in F-22 production after a certain amount of equipment, and the current F-22 is to determine the non-exports. As a result, the United States a large number of advanced fighters and equipment into the F-35, able to market into the future, is also vying for market share fighter F-35. At the same time, Russia's Su -35 fighter has entered the mid-and late stages of flight. Su -35 fighter in terms of overall performance, in some extent, the United States beyond the F-35. As a result, Russia in the downturn after a period of time, and finally there is hope in the pattern of international advanced fighter aircraft which made a re-positioned to -35 with the Soviet Union in the future advanced fighter to win a piece of the export market competitive.
And now, the prototype Su -35 damaged in flight, bound for Russia's ambition is a big blow. At the same time, to some extent, the United States will continue to maintain a dominance of the advanced fighters of the situation.
Damaged in the process of the prototype, there is another episode: the plane did not leave the ground state, the pilot ejected to use to escape the system. This from another angle -35 Su said that the ejection escape system performance indeed, but before that, it's the system there are a lot of outstanding performance. However, this is, after all, only a sub-system. A fighter can not escape the system by virtue of its performance has become the world's most advanced fighter planes, it is impossible to occupy so large an international market.
It appears that in the next five years or even longer, the Russian would like to re-establish it in the advanced fighter aircraft's position in this field, while the advanced fighter aircraft in the international export market, a share of the efforts to be a lot of setbacks.
April 30, 2009 17:17:01 Source: Xinhua
Posts: 6,441
By: haavarla - 13th June 2009 at 23:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Oooooooooook..:confused:
Thanks
Posts: 158
By: Spacepope - 14th June 2009 at 22:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Saw a photo of another prototype painted like this in last month's AFM. Very nice.
Question: The AFM photo shows both rudders deflected full outboard (opposite directions). Did the SU-35 delete the SU-27's plank of an airbrake and just use control surfaces?
Posts: 202
By: CayceG - 14th June 2009 at 23:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes, the Su-35 lacks the air brake on all other Flanker variants.
Posts: 493
By: talltower - 17th June 2009 at 12:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thrust asymmetry is the by-product.
You have no choice but to yank the eject lever and hope your K-36DM zero-zero ejector seat carries you safely out of your stricken Flanker.
Su-35 904 is a complete write off. Sukhoi & KNAAPO won't be pleased, and furthermore, the radar set on the Flanker was an Irbis (Russian = snow leopard) PESA radar set, the closest Russian equivalent to the Raptor's APG-77, which would give sufficient explanation about the molten magnesium housing material.
Posts: 4,082
By: Deino - 17th June 2009 at 13:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
äähhmmm ... as far as I'm not completely mad the "Farnborough air show next July" will be in 2010 !!!
http://www.1st4londontheatre.co.uk/tickets-1122474047.shtml
Deino
Posts: 3,652
By: Flanker_man - 17th June 2009 at 14:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I would understand the expression "next July" as being "next year's July" e.g July 2010.
July 2009 I would refer to as "this July".
I suppose it's the same as the English expression for 07:30 - we would call it "seven thirty" - but in Germany it would be "eight thirty" - e.g. thirty minutes TO eight.
The number of times I missed appointments in Germany because of that :eek:
It can get a bit confusing...... :confused:
On the other hand some English people would call tomorrow "this Thursday" i.e. the Thursday of THIS WEEK - whereas others would say "next Thursday" - i.e. the next Thursday to appear.
Who said English was easy ??? :eek:
Ken
Posts: 4,461
By: Scorpion82 - 17th June 2009 at 14:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No in german it's also seven thirty or half eight ;)
Posts: 402
By: niksi - 17th June 2009 at 15:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I suppose Ken was thinking of the time zone difference here ;)
EDIT: English itself shouldn't be mess, but with all those cultural differences of the people using it, it can really become a puzzle.
Posts: 3,652
By: Flanker_man - 17th June 2009 at 17:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You are not kidding....
See my post under 'Military Aviation News........' - about the CP-140 having a 'bathroom' :eek:
Ken
Posts: 25,376
By: Tango III - 17th June 2009 at 19:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No problem with Sukhois, says defence ministry
NEW DELHI: A joint probe by India and Russia into the crash of IAF's Sukhoi aircraft over Jaisalmer in April has given a clearance to the quality of
the fighter plane, indicating that the mishap took place due to human error. ( Watch )
"The joint probe by IAF and Russian experts into the Su-30MKI crash has found that there is no problem with the aircraft," top defence ministry officials said on Tuesday.
"The pilot of the aircraft is said to have inadvertently switched off the flight controls in the cockpit that apparently caused the crash," officials said.
The Su-30MKI, the frontline combat aircraft of the IAF, had crash while flying in a formation over Jaisalmer on April 30, in which both the pilot and co-pilot had ejected out.
While the pilot, Wing Commander S V Munje, bailed out safely, the co-pilot Wing Commander P S Nara died after ejecting out of the cockpit.
Immediately after the mishap, the IAF had ordered a court of inquiry, which was joined by 20 Russian experts from the original equipment manufacturers.
The probe, officials said, revealed that the ejection seat's "harness had broken" leading to loss of life.
"The court of inquiry has not yet completed compilation of its report. Whatever led to the fatality will come out once the report is submitted," they said.
However, to buttress the point, they said: "The safety record of Sukhois is almost unrivalled."
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/No-problem-with-Sukhois-says-defence-ministry/articleshow/4663731.cms
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By: haavarla - 17th June 2009 at 23:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I might add that this also help increase the internal fuel capasity on the
Su-35.
Also a new flight control system are put in use to deflect the rudders in opposite direction(airbrake).
I think it's mostly a software upgrade, but nevertheless it should function just like the older Flanker airbrake on the top.
check it out here: