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By: - 2nd March 2002 at 16:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the SMT prototype built by retrofitting an older MiG-29? If so, this will reflect that the top picture is what new buildt examples will look like. notice the different arrangement of the instrumentation. The people building the prototype would have had to work around existing equipment, while the people building the mockup had no such limitations.
By: - 2nd March 2002 at 23:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 02-03-02 AT 11:03 PM (GMT)]I think Juan is right for the most part. Plus a little advertising wizardry is thrown in as well for the mock up, that is, the mock up is ALWAYS going to be squeeky clean to make an impression on a potential client.
And yes, the SMT upgrade is a retro-fit planned for up to 150-180 existing Fulcrums in the RuAF.
Regards, Glenn.
By: - 3rd March 2002 at 07:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
There is such a MiG-29;
MiG now has four new-build MiG-29 designs for export: the carrier-based MiG-29K and two-seat MiG-29KUB, and the land-based MiG-29M1 and two-seat MiG-29M2. All four airframes have 90% commonality, including the wings, on both sets of aircraft the wings are the folding type of the MiG-29K. The only difference is that the carrier variants have an arrester hook instead of braking parachute. All four aircraft are equipped with the improved RD-33M engine (86kN instead of 81kN with afterburner), with a useful life of 2000 hours and much improved time between overhaul etc.
The new-aircraft differ from the previous MiG-29M/K in that they do not have the aluminum-lithium construction in the airframe. This is because the weight savings did not justify the increased cost.
All four aircraft are equipped with the Zhuk-M radar, digital fly-by-wire control system (original MiG-29M was analog), a new avionics suite based around a MIL-STD-1553b equivalent data bus, modern glass cockpit with large LCD MFDs (probably similar to the MiG-29SMT) and upgraded armaments selection. The aircraft also bear new index numbers. The new MiG-29K is no longer the 9.31, but the 9.41. The MiG-29M2 was unveiled at MAKS 2001.
Other engine possibilities are the new RD-33-10M (also shown at MAKS 2001); rated at 10.5 tonnes of thrust. How much is this in kN?
By: - 3rd March 2002 at 08:11 Permalink - Edited 16th October 2019 at 10:05
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-03-02 AT 08:21 AM (GMT)]All of the pictures I have of the SMT cockpit show a layout more like the lower picture and not the upper one.
It is possible either the top one is a mockup that was used to determine general layout or it might be a simulator cockpit they have used or in (my opinion most likely) a further advanced cockpit standard: note that on the top image there are two small MFD, one on each side console replacing a lot of switches etc, and the dial instrument in the combing on the right is gone and replaced by more warning/indicator lights which suggests better thought out positioning of instruments.
There was a lot of talk about standardising the cockpits of Russian aircraft (the instruments already had a rough standardisation and a standard colour scheme) from the Mig-29, Su-27, Ka-50, Ka-62, Mi-28, Mig-AT, etc etc:
Perhaps this is the winning design?
"Other engine possibilities are the new RD-33-10M (also shown at MAKS 2001); rated at 10.5 tonnes of thrust. How much is this in kN? "
Probably about 100kN or 22,000lbs.
Is this engine that has been called RD-45... I had heard that the Mig bid for the LFS or whatever it is called now was to use two 100kn class engines in preference to a single AL-41. (Twin engine reliability etc.)
Pictured below is another pic from an SMT cockpit similar to the second image in Vympels initial post.
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By: - 3rd March 2002 at 08:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
Garry, that picture of yours, in the right MFD, the circles with dots around them. What is that. is that the directional threat display? If it is, are those dot's showing the directional resolution? I doubt it's that bad, but just wondering what it is. Also notice that the radar "cone" is rather narrow, unless that's in the TWS or even sharper mode?
By: - 3rd March 2002 at 13:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
Vortex,
I can't really tell from Garry's pic but the display might well have a sticker over it showing a possible mode. I know that at Le Bourget the Russian MFD's were all kept off and only had stickers stuck over them to show what they might look like when operational (not that I got to see any Russian cockpits - just what I heard).
By: - 3rd March 2002 at 17:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
SMT?
I thought MIg has dispensed the SMT designation. I was told that the latest version of the Mig-29 is the MRCA variant, an upgrade over the Mig-29K.
Cannot confirm what the MRCA cockpit look like, but I was told that it was a much more Westernised than the rest (nearest comparison) a bit like like the Gripen.
By: - 3rd March 2002 at 18:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-03-02 AT 06:21 PM (GMT)]
Sorry, about the Gripen thing. I just go back from the bar! No, it more like a better upgrade than the SMT cockpit since the back seater have more controls over the avionics, the two seater is a full-fledged combat aircraft unlike the UB versions.
By: - 3rd March 2002 at 22:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
That circle with the dots around it is the threat warning system display. When a threat radar passes over the aircraft, the light in that direction flashes, which tells the pilot where the radar source is located (general direction anyway). If the light stays lit, the pilot will also here a constant tone (as oppose to just a beep when a radar simply passes over the aircraft), thus telling him a radar has him locked. Also, the circle in the middile will light up when a radar is locked on.
By: - 4th March 2002 at 01:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
PII, Ink thinks it's a sticker anyways, so how much does that sticker reflects the real thing? And why does it seems like it's simply an analogue system made digital (rather poor directional resolution, esp to the rear, don't know if that matters to a real pilot though). I think western pilots get more than just directions on their threat warning systems, info such as SAMs, AAMs, pulse radar, doppler radar, threat level, etc...is that so on Russian aircraft?
By: - 4th March 2002 at 01:45 Permalink - Edited 16th October 2019 at 10:05
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
The MFDs as far as I know are on in the picture I showed.
The article that was with the photo stated that this photo was evidence of the brightness of the displays in direct sunlight, compared with earlier russian displays that had to be mounted high up onthe display so that large shrouds could be put over the top to reduce the light on the display.
As to what is being displayed the thing in the lower left does seem to be a threat warning display.
I have attached a page from a computer game manual for Apache Havoc.
This is how the threat warning display works for current Russian helos... though as it seems to have been transfered to MFD it may have been changed a little. In the real system there are verbal warnings too.
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By: - 4th March 2002 at 04:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
Yup, that's exactly right. Vortex, the Russian display has lights on the bottom, under the airplane or circle icon that tell you what type of threat it is. It detects AWACS or early warning radar emissions, fighter radars, and short/medium/long-range SAM/AAA radars.
By: - 4th March 2002 at 07:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
wow, that seems pretty confusing to me. Maybe not to a well trained pilot. Let's say you got a SAM coming in at the same time as an AAM while having multiple radars locked on to you, how in the world you tell which indicator goes with what. Or they alternate in flashing? Maybe you're pretty much screwed that multiple missile is inbound anyways. Interesting. I think western a/c uses symbols, numbers, letters, threat bearing sectors (i've heard better than 5 deg resolution?), and approx range circles to indicate the threat. Not a fighter pilot, and the closest thing is a flight simulator and to me the threat warning indicator is extremely useful (and "life" saving).
By: - 4th March 2002 at 12:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
Nope the MiG-29SMT is still valid; the 'MRCA' is the MiG-29M2. Its new-build; SMT is an upgrade for existing aircraft (and what an upgrade!)
By: - 4th March 2002 at 16:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
So you are saying its better than the MRCA?
By: - 5th March 2002 at 02:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: MiG-29SMT cockpit pics question
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 05-03-02 AT 02:16 AM (GMT)]They're very close, but the MiG-29M1/M2 are of course the superior aircraft, being based on the optimized MiG-29M airframe and being new-build (which has several advantages, e.g. the higher cockpit which gives a better view); the biggest differences are the two extra hardpoints on the MiG-29M1/M2; the relaxed stability with digital fly-by-wire, the new phased array Zhuk-M radar (N010M) compared to the upgraded twist-cassergrain N019M, better IRST, superior engines (RD-33M isn't that much more powerful than RD-33 but it has much longer engine life and better TBO etc etc).
If the Russian Air Force had the money they would've brought the MiG-29M into the inventory back in the 90s; but oh well.
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By: Vympel - 2nd March 2002 at 09:42
There seem to be two types of MiG-29SMT cockpit; the first of these looks to be a mockup shot while the following are of course the actual MiG-29SMT prototype cockpit shots. Why doesn't the 'real' cockpit look as 'clean' as the mockup shot?
Also, has anyone found any pictures of the cockpit of the MiG-29M1/M2 (not the original MiG-29M)?
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