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By: - 25th October 2002 at 12:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
There were four of them built, two were for ground testing I believe. One or both of them could be in that picture. Or Yakolev could have moved the two flyers back to Zhukovskii to do work for the PAK FA; Yakolev is doing the work on the V/STOL system for that aircraft.
SOC
"Peace through kinetic solutions"
By: - 25th October 2002 at 14:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
Very good eye mate, it indeed does look like Zhukovsky. The one behind the Yak-130 is definately a flying model, and the other is a static test model, the only way you can tell between the two is the tail.
See on the tail of the left one how it has a coloured flag on it, only flying models had them. As you can see the other one doesn't have it, it's probably used to test other things like configuration of air outlets and such now.
Scattered Intelligence Agency:- www.portalpcs.com/intel
By: - 26th October 2002 at 10:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
Or Yakolev could have moved the two flyers back to Zhukovskii to do work for the PAK FA; Yakolev is doing the work on the V/STOL system for that aircraft.
So the PAK-FA is going to be a STOVL design then??
By: - 26th October 2002 at 19:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
Glann,
"So the PAK-FA is going to be a STOVL design then??"
Apparently it'll be some kind of combination of both (similar to the JSF). However, how the Russians plan to make an Su-27 derivative take off or land vertically is beyond me and many others.
By: - 26th October 2002 at 19:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
Heres another pic of a 141.
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By: - 26th October 2002 at 23:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
Really makes you wonder doesn't it, why they gave up on it so easily.
Scattered Intelligence Agency:- www.portalpcs.com/intel
By: - 28th October 2002 at 08:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
>Really makes you wonder doesn't it, why they gave up on it
>so easily.
>
>
>Scattered Intelligence Agency:- www.portalpcs.com/intel
Like most projects in Russia after the collapse of the USSR, I suspect it is just lack of funding.
The capability is there - just not the support.
Did you ever see the proposed Yak-43 ? An updated, improved Yak-141.
I put a picture of the plans for it onto my website - to show how similar it is to the X-35.
Check it out at :- http://www.duffeyk.freeserve.co.uk/misc_pics.htm
You will have to scroll down the page a bit.
By: - 28th October 2002 at 17:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-10-02 AT 05:33 PM (GMT)]>Like most projects in Russia after the collapse of the USSR,
>I suspect it is just lack of funding.
>
>The capability is there - just not the support.
Yes but the YAK-141 project actually already had funding problems before the collapse of the S.U. Developing a VSTOL aircraft is bound to be more complex - thus more costly than a conventional design. In the case of the YAK-141 there was the added cost driving factor in the very advanced systems it deployed - at the time it was the most advanced Russian aircraft ever.
As for the similarities between the "improved YAK-141"(I am a little sceptical about the YAK-43 designation) - there may be a little more than a coincidence there ;) - the Yakovlev design bureau sold a great deal of its research data on the YAK-141 to the Americans.
By: - 28th October 2002 at 17:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
>The Yak-43 (which looks rather like a Yak-141 with F-22
>shape) has a dry weight of around 22,000kg... this puts it
>in the SU-27 class.
Where did you get that figure? - the YAK-141 has a dry weight of 11,600kg and a max take-off weight of some 19,600 kg, which puts it in the same category as the MIG-29K(whith which it shares most of its systems BTW). It was the similar dimensions of the YAK-141 and MIG-29K, which made it feasible to convert the Admiral Gorshkov(designed for the YAK-141) to accomodate the MIG-29K.
I doubt that the "improved YAK-141" has double the dryweight of its predecessor. Anyway, I thought the designation of this version was "YAK-41M" and not "YAK-43"?
By: - 28th October 2002 at 17:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
>However, how the Russians plan to make
>an Su-27 derivative take off or land vertically is beyond me
>and many others.
Giant rubber bands. And a trampoline. }>
SOC
"Peace through kinetic solutions"
By: - 29th October 2002 at 13:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
>The Yak-43 (which looks rather like a Yak-141 with F-22
>shape) has a dry weight of around 22,000kg... this puts it
>in the SU-27 class.
>(There have been line drawings of teh Yak-43 posted here in
>the past...)
Actually Garry that weight puts it in the FOXHOUND class - empty. The dry weight of your typical Su-27 is 16,400kg, with the Su-27M around 18,000kg. If that weight is true, then loaded/fuelled the Yak-43 would need some SERIOUS power to get it off the ground. What engines were intended for its use?
Regards, Glenn.
By: - 29th October 2002 at 17:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
there are many differences between the JSF and the Yak-141, or even the proposed version in the post. The JSF lift fan is a world of difference from the two front lift jets on the Yak versions. This fan significantly increases the payload fraction. In additions, the JSF is designed to be stealthier than anything else that's nonAmerican. That just made the design much much more complicated. It was the swivle nozzle from the Russian experience that was the #1 worth while thing to look at. Note that such a design was proposed in the earlier days on more advanced Harriers also, the only difference is that the Russians actually have flight data for it and it is rather obvious and wise that such data should be used. That narrows down to the fan being the "unknown", which luckily for LM it worked as they advertised, or so they say. Nevertheless, if used, the Yak-141 will be a serious point defense fighter since it can hide anywhere and has supersonic and BVR caps. The JSF adds on to that with more range, more stealth, better avionics, and better TWRs on a smaller (relatively) airframe. Every aspect of that spells "complex".
By: - 30th October 2002 at 15:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
Does anyone know if the PAK-FA VTOL varriant will use a lift fan or lift-jets... If the lift fan is as good as stated then maybe it is possible to take off vertically in a big fighter (especially if its driven by 2 engines).
By: - 30th October 2002 at 20:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
>Does anyone know if the PAK-FA VTOL varriant will use a lift
>fan or lift-jets... If the lift fan is as good as stated
>then maybe it is possible to take off vertically in a big
>fighter (especially if its driven by 2 engines).
No no one knows ;) - simply because a final design for the next generation Russian fighter has yet to be determined. So far Sukhoi has been appointed project leader for a design study(with participation of both RSK MIG and Yakovlev) - this is to come up with a final design some time next year(if I remember correctly).
By: - 30th October 2002 at 22:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
actually due to LM's success with the lift fan, there were rumours/news of them designing a VTOL transport based on two such engines...it would be serious competition to the V22 in certain niche capabilities, ie, higher speed, stealthy, etc...at the cost of payload of course.
By: - 1st November 2002 at 09:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
out of all the OKBs, it would seem that Yakovlev put the most effort on applying physical stealth (angled bodies, etc) to their aircrafts.. even the Yak-130 has a slightly angled foward fueselage..and their LFI project looked very 5th generationish.
By: - 1st November 2002 at 14:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
>No no one knows ;) - simply because a final design for the
>next generation Russian fighter has yet to be determined. So
>far Sukhoi has been appointed project leader for a design
>study(with participation of both RSK MIG and Yakovlev) -
>this is to come up with a final design some time next
>year(if I remember correctly).
False, Sukhoi's approved PAK-FA design is a derivative of the Su-47, albeit with a more conventional wing planform. I'll post the picture later today again unless someone else has it.
SOC
"Peace through kinetic solutions"
By: - 2nd November 2002 at 02:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RE: Yak-141
False yourself :D
If that drawing you refer to was the final design, then what is RSK MIG and Yakovlev doing in the consortium?
The different design bureaus handed in preliminary design ideas for the "PAK-FA" - based on those proposals Sukhoi was appointed to head a consortium for the creation of the PAK-FA. The final design and systems for this has yet to be determined.
Posts: 3,652
By: Flanker_man - 25th October 2002 at 11:59
The attached photo was found in a Russian magazine.
It shows a Yak-130 trainer in camo - with an array of weapons in front of it.
What is interesting is that in the background there are TWO Yak-141
'Freestyle' VTOL a/c.
I photographed two Yak-141's in 1993 - one at the MAKS airshow, the other, which had slight differences, at the museum at Khodynka in central Moscow - see my photos at :- http://www.lindenhillimports.com/yak-141.htm
The Khodynka example disappeared - and we saw it a few years later hidden behind some fencing at the Yakovlev OKB museum - in central Moscow not far from Khodynka.
On the visit the following year, they were dragging it out from behind the fencing (very roughly I might add!). They told us it was going to be put on display outside the museum hall. It has not yet appeared - as of two years ago.
The hangar in the photograph LOOKS like the hangar at the Yakovlev OKB - although I cannot be certain. We have glanced inside it on occasions - but they won't let us in and it is usually kept closed. I also suspect that they have the full-scale wooden mockup of the Yak-44 in there - see :- http://www.lindenhillimports.com/yak-44.htm
If it is the hangar at the OKB, what is the Yak-130 doing there? How - and why - do they transport it from Zhukovsky to central Moscow?
Either it is a mockup - or the hangar is not at the OKB - but at Zhukovsky.
If it is at Zhukovsky - why are the Yak-141's there ?
Intriguing................
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