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By: - 4th February 2012 at 18:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Did that actually fly or was it just a static model?
I ask this because I can't seem to find any air intakes in that pic.
By: - 4th February 2012 at 18:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Did that actually fly or was it just a static model?I ask this because I can't seem to find any air intakes in that pic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYueaFelZ9U
Cheers .
By: - 4th February 2012 at 18:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYueaFelZ9U
it flew quite nicely, in fact :D
and, in answer to Hotdog, yes, the rafale program would exist, as it was the next generation from the M2000/M4000
By: - 4th February 2012 at 18:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Did that actually fly or was it just a static model?I ask this because I can't seem to find any air intakes in that pic.
It flew :)
By: - 4th February 2012 at 18:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYueaFelZ9Uit flew quite nicely, in fact :D
and, in answer to Hotdog, yes, the rafale program would exist, as it was the next generation from the M2000/M4000
I agree, the Rafale is a whole generation ahead of M2000/4000..
M4000 was a great success as it was the only western high altitude air superiority fighter in 1980's that was considered on par with F-15.
By: - 4th February 2012 at 18:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If Frenchies or Saudies ended up ordering Mirage 4000, would Rafale program even exist?
Yes I think. The 4000 is our F15 while the Rafale is the F22 (though the 4000 is the same generation and same doctrine as the F15 while the Rafale is another branch than the F22)
Anyway it has been a huge mistake to drop the 4000 IMO.
By: - 4th February 2012 at 18:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
@ c-seven
I am certain that it is my "big mistake" not to buy a Lamborghini... but somehow, my bet is my banker won't let me anyway... :D
By: - 4th February 2012 at 18:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If Frenchies or Saudies ended up ordering Mirage 4000, would Rafale program even exist?
Interesting. Had the M4K been available, it would have competed with Sukhoi for IAF's attention.
By: - 4th February 2012 at 18:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
@ c-sevenI am certain that it is my "big mistake" not to buy a Lamborghini... but somehow, my bet is my banker won't let me anyway... :D
Sure, and my banker agree too. But we needed our F16/ 2000 AND our F15/4000 otherwise we don't answer the market needs fully or we let a huge hole in your offer.
They should have bought 40 or 50 M4000 and pray for other customers to come later. After all that's what they did with the 2000-5 before Taïwan bought the first batch. Without that we'd have missed the F16 blk 52 generation.
Now it's simplier, the Rafale is in the middle...
By: - 4th February 2012 at 19:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYueaFelZ9UCheers .
Thanks. It may be just me but I note some similarities to the Rafale...
As interesting as it looks though, the Rafale is a great plane and I'm happy India is buying that instead.:D
By: - 4th February 2012 at 19:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks. It may be just me but I note some similarities to the Rafale...As interesting as it looks though, the Rafale is a great plane and I'm happy India is buying that instead.:D
No, you're perfectly right Witcha. There are a lot of similatities between the Rafale and the M4000.
Few people know that the M4000 flew up to 1987 IIRC for aerodynamic developments - close coupled canard - and above all: FBW developments. To a point that when we French compare the development costs of the Rafale with those of the Eurofighter we cheat a little to be honest. The Rafale is a true incremental development of the Mirage 4000
By: - 4th February 2012 at 20:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Rafale an incremental development of the 4000? You're kidding.
The M88 is much smaller than the M53.
By: - 4th February 2012 at 20:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
and a completely different engine, as well, but he was talking about technologies involved of which a certain amount was worked upon with the M4000 prototype
By: - 4th February 2012 at 21:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In the end there was no particular need for the M4000 with the French air force. Avionics wise it offered no particular advantage over the M2000 and they didn't need the unrefueled range. Performance of the M2000 with tanker support was more then adequate.
So its only chance was the export market which it would of been hobbled due to the lack of domestic sales. If the Americans hadn't wanted to sell the F-15 to Saudi Arabia then it might of succeded but as that became a non issue it didn't have a chance.
As just like the EAP and Typhoon the M4000 became a very useful tool in the Rafale development program I call it a success.
By: - 4th February 2012 at 21:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Too bad Iraq didn't order Mirage 4000s, it would have made short work of Iran's tomcats :diablo:
By: - 4th February 2012 at 22:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
None missed the Mirage 4000 because the much cheaper Mirage 2000 was at hand. The French style is smaller and smarter. Compared to the Typhoon and the Super Hornet the Rafale is smaller too. when the yardstick (main opponent) was/is the Flanker in all variants.
By: - 4th February 2012 at 23:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The whole reason France built Rafale instead of staying in Eurofighter was to get a new carrier-capable aircraft.
Since the specs of Rafale included operating from Foch & Clemenceau, the question must be asked...
How would Mirage 4000 have done as a carrier-based fighter on France's carriers?
That gives you your answer... it was either M4K or Rafale.
By: - 5th February 2012 at 03:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
[QUOTE=J-20 Hotdog;1853439]If Frenchies or Saudies ended up ordering Mirage 4000, would Rafale program even exist?
The Rafale would still have existed as a 'next' generation follow-on though it's configuration could well have changed. Probably a single engined in between the Gripen and F-35 since the M-4000 was a heavy twin engined system.
By: - 5th February 2012 at 04:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think it would have taken them longer to start with Rafale, so the french navy would have gone with F-18, and Rafale-when it finally would came into being would have been a closer match to F-35.
I think it was a good thing to skip it btw
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By: J-20 Hotdog - 4th February 2012 at 18:37
If Frenchies or Saudies ended up ordering Mirage 4000, would Rafale program even exist?