303 Browning machine gun

By: Air Ministry - 7th March 2008 at 19:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Hello All and thank you for the info, I have located a pair of English version 303Brownings i wont tell you what they are costing its scary. I have one more request can anyone tell me the difference between the wing mounted and turret mounted guns? A picture of the turret version would be even better before I hand over my hard earned cash and buy a lemon.

Just to be clear about this, while the mountings differ from turret to turret and fighter to fighter, the actual gun is identical in all cases.

It is things like the firing mechanisms which differ, but these are all bolt on items.

I have four guns, enough for my two turret projects.

I originally bought a pair of "old standard" de-acts for around £175 each in about 1995, but was then asked to swap them for four, de-acted to the new standard, i.e. almost gutted. Not an offer I could refuse.

I've not seen a .303" at an aerojumble or arms fair for many years, so I count myself fortunate to have mine.

By: ian_ - 7th March 2008 at 19:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Evening Graham, Here's a scan of a Browning being inserted into the rear end of a Whitley, from the exellent 'British Aircraft Armament vol 2' by R Wallace Clarke. It looks identical to the wing mounted guns. The box fitted below the cocking slot (?) is a safety catch. There is also a close up photo of the flash eliminator and I could sort you out a piccy of the safety if you need it. All the best, Ian.

By: fighterace - 7th March 2008 at 23:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

turret gun

Just looked in the shed, got a halifax turret browning. The gun is identicial to the wing guns apart from the flash eluminator, and firing safety mech which just bolts on, this unlike others has the option to be in the safe or firing position However looking at the diffrent ones i have sadly the mounting bracket is diffrent for each aircraft, this is riveted in place.

I will post a few diffrent types of fixings brackets together with the aircraft tomorrow for you

Perhaps a little research is needed before spending your hard earned cash:D

By: mike currill - 9th March 2008 at 19:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I doubt it, the Ferret Browning was originally .30 cal (.30-06) and later on 7.62mm (.308 Winchester) .303 was only used in rifles, Brens and Vickers in the British Army.

Sorry, I stand corrected. I would have known that if I'd ever got to fire the darned thing, I only ever drove them. The pre-select gear box was a strange experience, imagine driving around in 5th with the constant nagging knowledge that your selector is in 4th (ready for a quick downshift when the time comes). Something I never quite got used to.

By: fighterace - 9th March 2008 at 22:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Halifax Turret Gun

Here you go graham, this is what you should be looking for as thes come off a halifax mk3 gun turret. Only diffrence with all the brownings on spits, hurris, ect ect is the airmech assy,safety mech which is bolted on the side, flash eluminator which only screws on, and the mounting bracket. This is slighty diffrent on every one i have but it does appear this is a standard british browning .303 which is modified with bolt on attachments to suit each aircraft. Obviously for hand operated guns the recoil buffer on the butt is replaced with a grip trigger rather than a air operated solinoid trigger

By: mike currill - 9th March 2008 at 22:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

That's the first time I've seen a photo of one uninstalled other than the one of the Whitley tail turret having removed/installed.

By: Truculent AME - 11th March 2008 at 01:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I have a pretty good photo of a turret mounted .303 in a Bolingbroke.

This aircraft is located on Vancouver Island at Sydney - home of the BC Aviation Museum.

I have a higher res copy of it if you want it - just pm me and I will send it by email.

Truc

By: 12jaguar - 11th March 2008 at 13:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I have one more request can anyone tell me the difference between the wing mounted and turret mounted guns? Thanks again

Hi Graham,

This is a discussion the Stirling Project is having at the moment. I believe that the firing mechanism is different, with turret guns being hydraulically fired whereas wing guns are pneumatic. The mechanism fitted to the bottom of the gun is of a different design, the turret (hydraulic) version has a more castellated appearance, I've had a look at a similar item from a Spit crash which is more cylindrical. I'm no expert on this so if anyone has pictures of these 2 items to make a comparison it would help.

John

By: turretboy - 20th March 2008 at 15:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Hi Graham,

This is a discussion the Stirling Project is having at the moment. I believe that the firing mechanism is different, with turret guns being hydraulically fired whereas wing guns are pneumatic. The mechanism fitted to the bottom of the gun is of a different design, the turret (hydraulic) version has a more castellated appearance, I've had a look at a similar item from a Spit crash which is more cylindrical. I'm no expert on this so if anyone has pictures of these 2 items to make a comparison it would help.

John

Hi John,

Have you ever seen this thread?

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58434

Some turrets such as the Boulton Paul type 'E' and the Bristol centre turret used the electric solenoid "fire & safe" unit.

Regards,

By: ANM2gunner - 28th October 2009 at 17:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

ANM2 ammo boxes

greetings, my name is robert i am from the southeast usa. i recently aquired a british Mk2 ANM2 in .303 cal. it has a mount that a "type 1 holder" mounts to. can anyone tell me where i could find a 100 round ammo can to go in it?

here is a photo of the gun with the holder attached to the cradle.

any help is greatly appreciated. i was told this gun was used on a lancaster bomber. i have NO clue about these guns as they are very rare here in the states. thanks again fellas..

robert

By: ZRX61 - 29th October 2009 at 03:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

greetings, my name is robert i am from the southeast usa. i recently aquired a british Mk2 ANM2 in .303 cal. it has a mount that a "type 1 holder" mounts to. can anyone tell me where i could find a 100 round ammo can to go in it?
robert

Sure, but do you require live ammo or dummy? If that thing actually works you will be in for a world of hurt from the ATF without the correct permits & tax stamp etc.
303 ammo isn't cheap like regular US .30cal stuff, you could pay up to $1/round.. & thats for both live & dummy ammo.

Edit:
Just reread your post & realised you need the can, not the ammo.. n/m

By: ANM2gunner - 29th October 2009 at 20:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Sure, but do you require live ammo or dummy? If that thing actually works you will be in for a world of hurt from the ATF without the correct permits & tax stamp etc.
303 ammo isn't cheap like regular US .30cal stuff, you could pay up to $1/round.. & thats for both live & dummy ammo.

Edit:
Just reread your post & realised you need the can, not the ammo.. n/m

we are working on semiauto modifications similar to what has been done with the 1919A4. just trying to get all the odds and ends found before this happens. the other two guys are working on the FN30 at the moment. the ANM2 is next on the list. when i got the parts kit it came with a ton of original british manuals the previous owner found somewhere. we are using the machinist prints to redesign it to fire semi from a closed bolt.. would like to find a can or at least drawings of it so i can make a new one. good close up photos would even be a great help..

robert