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By: - 11th March 2005 at 14:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The wings would have fallen of earlier and we would have been up the swanny without a paddle :eek:
By: - 11th March 2005 at 16:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Valiant B2
Sorry to disagree, but spar configuration was markedly different to the B1, and overall the B2 was a much more strongly built aircraft.
By: - 11th March 2005 at 17:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry chief, of all the classic jets I must admit that the Valiant is the one I probably know least about, any chance of filling us in on a few more details regarding the B2.
By: - 12th March 2005 at 00:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Valiant was always intended to be a stop-gap airframe. Built quickly with minimum technological advantages, it was designed and built to provide a fall-back in the event that the Vulcan and Victor programmes suffered serious delay. In the event, both the Vulcan and Victor came up to scratch in time and the RAF had the machines it wanted/needed, hence development of the Valiant tailed off. The wing spar cracks finally killed it even though the type had only been latterly used for PR and IFR duties and not in the aerodynamically stressful bombing role - in which the Vulcan and to some extent the Victor excelled.
Essentially, the Valiant, although a fairly decent kite, did not have the development potential the other two had (or were considered to have). But it was chosen to drop the UK's first nuke.
The above from memory only at this time of night, but reading a few books on the V-Force will flesh it out. Can recommend V-Bombers by Barry Jones.
By the way, what is the Avro 730? ;) The Vulcan was the Avro 698.
By: - 12th March 2005 at 00:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for that Les. Any chance of filling in a few more details of this B2? How radical a redesign was the proposal?
By: - 12th March 2005 at 00:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
DGH,
if you go to http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/val2.html, you get a quick overview, while http://www.aim72.co.uk/valb2.jpg, although of a model kit, shows the major difference - the huge u/c fairings that enabled the centre section of the wing to be much more robust (no holes for the undercart required!). You can get an overview of the Valiant at http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/valiant/ (recommended for the other aircraft covered on the site too)
By: - 12th March 2005 at 15:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Valiant B2 (& Avro 730)
Will get the specs together for the B2, suffice it to say that whilst the Valiant B1 was indeed the "interim design" for the V-force, the B2 was a privately produced design by Vickers Armstrong that was far-sighted for it's day. but unfortunately, the requirement for low level capability was not recognised by the RAF/Governments of the day until after they had cancelled and scrapped the only B2 (Serial WJ954) which first flew on 04/0953, this was also dubbed the Pathfinder as that was the originally and by then outmoded role that the RAF would have had for it.
She was designed to fly as full throttle at low level. Whereas the regular Valiant was redlined at 414 mph at sea level, the B2 (Type 673) was made strong enough to fly at full power at sea level, reaching 552 mph.
The most obvious change was the main undercarriage, which no longer required cuts into the wings, and were a four-wheel bogie arrangment which folded rearwards into streamlined boxes (these became a familiar sight on many later Tupolev bomber designs).
Original powerplants were to have been Rolls-Royce RB.80 bypass jets (later to become the Conway), but the one and only prototype was powered by Avon RA.14's of the uprated 200-series.
Originally there was a tentatuive production order for I think 17 aircraft, but this was later cancelled, and the one and only bomber which the RAF should have bought was scrapped in 1958.
The Avro 730 was the "successful" candidate for a high-speed (appx. M3) high level reconaisance bomber to an RAF requirement issued in the early 1950's!
The prototype was actually partially assembled when the infamous 1957 Defence White Paper saw it end its days cut up into giant circular waste bins!
I'll retrieve some more detailed info from my books later and return with details on both aircraft.
(when I manage to crack uploading images, we'll maybe get some illustrations as well).
By: - 12th March 2005 at 16:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Great, I'm learning here. :cool:
By: - 14th March 2005 at 13:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
ValiantB2/Avro 730
As I have already said, I will post more tech. info about both aircraft, and add to history of 730. In the meantime, here are some might-have-been images of the 730 I found whilst surfing.
One interesting point about the 730 is that RAF studies started two years before the USAF, whose study reached hardware in the shape of the Lockheed SR71!
By: - 15th March 2005 at 21:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Valiant B2
Two sets of pictures of the one and only Valiant B2.
Apologies for quality, but had to scan B&W pics. from books then re-size.
By: - 15th March 2005 at 21:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Valaint B2 & Avro 730
We now have images for all to see what one aircraft looked like, and both the earlier and final versions of the intended 730.
The Avro 730 was originally designed against R.156, as a purely reconaisance aircraft carrying the then very large array for Red Drover radar.
Later development of the radar allowed for a reduction in it's overall size, and the aircraft design was re-worked to include a bomb-bay for the intended "Blue Rosette" bomb, which weighed approx 7,000 lbs.
The earlier version of the aircraft was intended to be powered by four Armstrong Siddeley P.159's (20,750 lbs thrust), the later and final intended designe was to use eight P.176's (4,400 lbs thrust).
Range with full internal fueld was to be 4,280 n.miles, maximun ceiling 66,000 ft.
Posts: 13
By: 13012902 - 11th March 2005 at 13:49
I appreciate that this may not be the specific forum to bring this up, but what would have happened to the RAF if instead on cancelling the Valiant B2 Pathfinder/low level bomber, they had put it into production.
Bearing in mind the fact that the Boeing B52 first flew at virtually the same date as the Valiant B1, and models of that are still flying!
Hindsight is a terrible affliction, but, if the Valiant B2 had been produced, I could not see the Vulcan and Victor 2's going into squadron service, and if it were produced at all (for the moment ignoring Sandys), would the Avro 730 have taken to the skies at all. I suspect that if it did it would not have been in the Strategic Bomber role, but more in it's originally intended reconnaisance role and/or as an SST research tool. The benefit of that would leave the likes of Boeing and Lockheeds failed SST's standing!