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By: - 9th September 2016 at 22:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A lot would be over to available paint or a combination off, I seem to remember early blue noses from the P-51 was an approximation until someone discovered a wall mural using the correct shade of blue, which was somewhat different.
By: - 10th September 2016 at 10:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Didn't know if it was chosen by the individual fighter group or someone higher up
By: - 11th September 2016 at 02:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The BlueNoserof The 352nd FG !!!! "Second To None " !!!!
The BlueNosers from Bodney ! Have some wartime colors photos somewhere and various shades of blue on the cowlings !!!! Their P-47's as I recall did not have colors on their engines ...but may be wrong about that !
By: - 11th September 2016 at 02:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The BlueNosers of the 352nd FG !
This Kermit Weeks P-51 painted in the wartime markings of Maj George Preddy ...the colors I am told off wartime color sides slides are a match for Preddy's P-51 ! "SECOND TO NONE" !!!! The Luftwaffe found out the hard way as to the groups motto !!!!!!!!!!!
By: - 11th September 2016 at 23:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The VIII Fighter Command order to apply assigned colors to the noses of the fighters came in mid-March 1944 (some sources state as early as March 13-15 time frame, where as other sources claim as late as March 23rd). The one and two-color combinations were assigned to the Fighter Groups at this time. Prior to this time, all P-51's and P-47's arriving in England that were painted OD/grey were given white noses as well as the white bands/stripes, for friendly-identification (later, when OD/grey gave way to bare metal finishes from the factory, the noses/bands were painted black instead). These identification markings were meant to help make it easier to quickly differentiate a friendly P-51 from an enemy Me-109 and a friendly P-47 from an enemy Fw-190 (these types of markings were of course not needed for the unique design of the P-38). As the air war continued through 1944, there was less of a need for those markings to remain as they had been from '43, and would eventually be done away with completely by 1945. The 56th Fighter Group were the first to initiate and be approved to apply bright colors to the noses of their aircraft, in February 1944 - according to 56th FG histories, this was in effect intended to catch the Luftwaffe off guard, who by this time would be expecting white-nosed fighters to be the enemy, and would perhaps mistake the brightly colored noses of the 56th FG aircraft as being their own at a distance. For the 56th FG, early on, they painted their cowls based on individual Squadron colors, using red, yellow and blue to differentiate between the three different Squadrons within the 56th FG. Soon, the other Fighter Groups expressed interest in painting the noses of their aircraft in bright colors, and within just a few weeks the VIII Fighter Command developed the various nose color assignments (of which the main motivation was to have a greater ability to identify individual Group aircraft, with no longer an importance placed on "low" visibility markings - it should also be added that the directive to apply colors to the noses of the fighters came around the same time that the USAAF did away with worrying about camouflaging their aircraft). When the order was given in March 1944, there was only to be one nose color or nose color combination for an entire Group, and while the 56th FG adopted red for their nose color (from the original 61st Sqd), it was also assigned to the 4th FG, as they could, having already transitioned out of the P-47 and into the P-51 by the time of the order (one of the first 8th AF Groups to do so) - had the 4th still kept their P-47's by late March, or the 56th transitioned to Mustangs, things would have been different.
The 56th's initial idea of having a different color for each of the different Squadrons within the Group, applied to the aircraft, also was later adopted by the various 8th AF Fighter Groups, but this was shifted to the rudders rather than the nose. Unlike the 8th, however, the 9th Air Force employed the use of a different color combination on the nose to differentiate between Squadrons, rather than Groups, like the 56th FG employed initially.
With regard to the 352nd FG bluenosers, there were three different "generations"/shades of blue used, from March 1944 till the fall of 1944 and beyond (I too have never seen a 352nd FG P-47 with blue cowling - though I don't think it was until some point in April '44 that all of the 352nd had transitioned to the Mustang). The 486th FS was the first Squadron within the 352nd to get Mustangs, and these early examples (P-51B's) were still painted OD/grey. When the order came to paint the noses of their Mustangs blue, the 486th used a very light, almost "powder", blue, which contrasted well against the dark OD (there aren't any Mustangs flying today in 352nd FG markings with that early shade of blue, and the source, nor a Fed Standard match, has ever been nailed down). Very soon, however, the 352nd began receiving P-51B's/C's (followed a few months later by D's) that were bare metal. The switch therefore came around perhaps May/June '44, to a "medium blue", which is the shade you see closely matched on the majority of the restored Mustangs flying in 352nd FG markings today, such as "Cripes A' Mighty 3rd", "Pincess Elizabeth", and "Moonbeam McSwine" (the source for this shade of blue, nor a Fed Standard match, has ever been nailed down either, but there are a couple original 352nd FG items that survive today with that original WWII medium blue paint intact, which have been used to color-match). In late 1944, a third and final shade of blue took over (which shows up darker than the "medium blue" in B&W phots), this being RAF Deep Sky Blue. This is the shade of blue you see applied on the restored Mustangs "Miss Helen" and "Cripes A' Mighty (IV)" (the same paint having been found to have been used in a surviving latrine at Bodney).
By: - 11th September 2016 at 23:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for that John, that answers some things.
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By: Keefy041 - 9th September 2016 at 19:41
Two things I've been pondering .
1, If the 56th FG had gone on the P-51, what colours would they have been ?
Their P-47's had a red nose, but so did 4th FG mustangs ? So would they have been different ?
2, Who and how were the various nose colours chosen ?
Over to those who know more !