Read the forum code of contact
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 00:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You could always read John Romain's excellent piece describing exactly this comparison from a pilot's perspective in the current FlyPast. ;)
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 00:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I would do exactly that if FlyPast offered an on-line-viewing purchase choice, but all that seems available is the opportunity to buy a hard copy and have it snail-mailed. I don't care about the cost, but I do care about the time involved. It won't work with my deadline.
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 00:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Er, they do. I'm sitting here with my digital copy open on my iPad right now.
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 01:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Stephan,
There is an article in the latest Flypast (which has a special feature on the BF109) and one section has an interview with John Romain on flying the 109E-7 (ex Ed Russell) & the Buchon his company operates. (....seems Mike J beat me to it!)
I have read many current day pilot reports on flying the Buchon, and a couple of detailed articles by Dave Southwood on flying the genuine G2 'Black 6' operated by the IWM from 1991-97, (He first flew the Buchon when one was operated by Charles Church in the late 80's).
It would seem that consensus is that they fly similar, except that according to Dave Southwood, the directional stability in the Buchon is worse than that of the G2 (which is not very good!), and it's a LOT noisier! (In fact, the Buchon has the reputation of being the noisiest cockpit of all the WWII fighters).
There are a few things that John Romain mentions about the Buchon in the FP article when comparing the earlier E with the Buchon (which was based on the later G-2 airframe).
One is that the redesigned radiator flaps of the F & later series, cause a lot of drag when fully open, and in his words "act like a dive brake". He also notes that whilst you can take off in a 3-point attitude in the E, in the Buchon you have to eventually get the tail up, otherwise "you'll drop the left wing".
That said, he mentions that the E is nicer then the later models, as did former 'Black 6' and current Warbird pilot Charlie Brown when he flight tested the same aircraft after it's restoration, so I guess a direct comparison with the Buchon should be with the G series.
I do have a copy of an article by the late Mark Hanna somewhere on flying the Buchon they operated (G-BOML) until his tragic death in it in September 1999. (This article was published again in another magazine, but re-written slightly for an account of flying the ex Buchon modified to a G-10, which was operated by them in the mid 90s).
I can send the former to you if you like.
Cheers
Paul
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 01:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You might also like to check out this recording of a talk given by Dave on flying the various WWII types.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrpcamspLw#t=239
(The link should start at the section about the 109 G2).
Here's remainder of the section concluding with a few words about the Buchon: -
Cheers
Paul
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 01:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm sitting here with my digital copy open on my iPad right now.
I assume that's a subscription. You can't buy a single copy digitally.
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 02:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes you can, I just did a couple of days ago. Download the free app in iTunes, then you can purchase individual issues going back about 4 years or so for $5.99 per issue
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 02:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Circa 1968, you colleague, the late James Gilbert, wrote a piece for Flying on flying the various aircraft used in the Battle of Britain film.
Perhaps he had some insights since many of the original cast (of the real battle) were still around to speak with.
I recall one line, which has stayed with me whenever I read about Bf-109s in combat. "What a horrible place to die".
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 03:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thank you, Mike, I'll do that.
And John, that's wonderful of you to remember James so specifically. He was my best friend at Flying at that time.
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 14:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As a contrast to accounts of these a/c flying in preservation, many years ago I fead some really fascinating accounts of '109's being used in combat by the Israelis post 1945. If I recall correctly, they flew not only real '109's, but Buchons as well as the other post-war revamped - (Was it Hungarian/Turkish...?) - non-DB-powered version, as well as many ex-Allied types. The Israelis were non-too keen on the offspring of the '109. The article might have been in an issue of AM from about thirty years ago. Maybe someone here can pinpoint the article...?
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 15:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Tonk,
That'll be the Avia S-199...allegedly the worst of the lot to fly...
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 15:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Israelis didn't fly real 109s or the Buchon - which wasn't around at the time anyway. They did fly the Avia S199 Mezec (mule), which only had the Jumo 211 "bomber" engine in it and the underwing gondolas which themselves were disliked by Luftwaffe pilots.
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 16:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Tonk,
That'll be the Avia S-199...allegedly the worst of the lot to fly...
Mezec, aye, that's the badger - at least it looks better than the Buchon.....!
@Graham ;- It's a long time since I read that article, but it may have been that the pilots quoted in it had flown the other versions elsewhere, but there were certainly some good comparisons in it. The only thing that I remember them saying about the Buchon was something about it being noisy & more draggy in a dive.
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 17:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mezec, aye, that's the badger - at least it looks better than the Buchon.....!
I'd still take the Buchon. The Buchon has character.
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 18:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Czech S.99 was a standard Bf.109G-10, so it is possible that some Israel pilots managed to achieve a flight in one of those whilst training. If so they'd be a bit disappointed with the S.199.
By: - 3rd January 2015 at 22:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wilson Connell Edwards owns a few and has an opinion.
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/August/Pilot/f_talltale
With many hundreds of hours in both the P–51 and Bf 109/Buchon, for example, he says the German-designed aircraft is far and away the more nimble fighter. “It’s not even a close contest,” he says. “In the hands of a similarly trained and experienced pilot, the 109 wins hands-down.” Edwards recounts a truism by Luftwaffe fighter ace Adolf Galland: “Most pilots expect their airplanes to perform. The Me 109 expects its pilot to perform.”
By: - 4th January 2015 at 22:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Tonk,Nicknamed Mezek (mule) possibly due it's handling qualities and I'vealso read somewhere that the Avia S-199was underpowered.
That'll be the Avia S-199...allegedly the worst of the lot to fly...
Posts: 629
By: Stepwilk - 3rd January 2015 at 00:28
I've heard that the Buchon was really a pretty awful airplane, in terms of its flying qualities vis-a-vis a true Bf-109. Can anybody enlighten me further, or perhaps tell me I heard wrong?