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By: - 21st June 2012 at 15:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Those are some really good pics of an airfield i know very little about. During my line of work in the late eighties i used to have to go to Adams foods on an industrial park i think near the railway line, and you could still make out some parts of a runway and peri track, and maybe a hangar too.. And i used to stand and try to imagine the Victors coming and going from years gone by. But sadly now i think most of what i could see is all long gone.
Rob
By: - 21st June 2012 at 15:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wonderful stuff! Thanks for sharing these HP111.
I wonder which one's our Lindy, XL231?! :)
By: - 21st June 2012 at 15:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wonderful stuff! Thanks for sharing these HP111.I wonder which one's our Lindy, XL231?! :)
I wish I knew. We got badgered by so many comments about "Official Secrets" that I never wrote down a list of serial numbers!
By: - 21st June 2012 at 15:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It's the only Hertfordshire airfield that doesn't have a book about it :mad:
I used to go to a business many years ago whose boss was a former test pilot based there, he told me that the comp between pilots was to keep a victor as low as poss after take off to buzz a pub called the Red Cow at the end of the runway & see how many glasses were broken when they met for a drink afterwards.
A friends parents 1st house was in park street & they had parts of Fred's shed to create a workshop in their garden, the section of door with H on was the roof.
You can't recognised anything now apart from a hangar that I think was the paintshop, even when you fly over it you can hardly make where the runway & taxiways were.
By: - 21st June 2012 at 17:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The main runway at Radlett may have been long, but Victors on take off (particularly B1s) used so much of it that being lowish and making a lot of noise when crossing the airfield boundary was quite plausible. As far as landings were concerned, the south end of the runway was very near the A5, so aircraft could cross the road impressively low. I particularly remember two landings I chanced across, B1 XA922 and also Jetstream G-ATXI when I was taking a stroll along the road prior to attending an interview at HP. It made me think I had come to the right place!
I made an exploration on Streetview and didn't recognise any of the buildings. All the old ones seem to have gone.
By: - 21st June 2012 at 19:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Radlett
When was the Halifax 'nose' moved !!!!,i seem to remember it as a huge birds nest.
By: - 21st June 2012 at 19:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
When was the majority of Radletts runways etc broken up? Was the hardcore used during the M25's construction in the mid 80's?
Rob
By: - 21st June 2012 at 19:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
When was the Halifax 'nose' moved !!!!,i seem to remember it as a huge birds nest.
On 30 October 1965 a trailer wound its way through Cheltenham with the massive bulk of the front half of a four engined bomber's fuselage on board. This was the nose section and crew compartment of the very last surviving Handley Page Halifax heavy bomber - PN323 - stablemate to the Lancaster and Bomber Command's longest serving bomber on wartime operations. It had been transported from the Handley Page works at Radlett in Hertfordshire and was being presented to Skyfame by Graham Trant and Harry Levy, in whose custody it had rested for several years. Once restored to its previous condition, the nose section will be on view for visitors to enter and inspect."
from http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/JetAgeRMCSkyfame.htm
By: - 21st June 2012 at 21:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for the memories. I used to work in what is now all the MOD in Whitehall1962-8). Half the building was Air Ministry and my half The Board of Trade.
I Lived in Luton so I used the line every working day. I got very miffed if I did not get my corner seat so I could see the works and any activity.
By: - 22nd June 2012 at 05:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The runways were still in one piece when I worked in London; from 1986 to 1990. They were broken up soon after, and a programme of gravel extraction ensued. That is now complete. No idea of any future plans for the land.
By: - 22nd June 2012 at 08:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Incidentally, for locals in the know, a good place to observe factory activity at Radlett was from a public footpath along the south boundary of the airfield. The path followed a footbridge over the railway which gave a close-up grandstand view of the apron. Apparently you got harassed by security guards and police if you lingered or tried taking photographs. There were mutterings that some specific individuals frequently took their dogs for walks that way, deliberately so to speak. It was possibly one of the earliest places in the country with video surveillance.
I guessing about 1960 when I took this shot.
Mark
By: - 22nd June 2012 at 08:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Very interesting images.
I worked in the Park Street business park during the early 1990's after the M25 had wrought the destruction of much of the airfield as at that time the gravel extraction was still underway.
However, the overriding memory was on the withdrawal of the Victor when a multi ship formation flew low over the old HP factory site and airfield. As I remember it was a stunning low and slow flypast before a power out.
A few years ago working in the area I noticed that the old crash gates on the A414 are still there and give a view down across the old airfield.
By: - 22nd June 2012 at 09:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Incidentally, for locals in the know, a good place to observe factory activity at Radlett was from a public footpath along the south boundary of the airfield. The path followed a footbridge over the railway which gave a close-up grandstand view of the apron. Apparently you got harassed by security guards and police if you lingered or tried taking photographs. There were mutterings that some specific individuals frequently took their dogs for walks that way, deliberately so to speak. It was possibly one of the earliest places in the country with video surveillance.
I guessing about 1960 when I took this shot.Mark
Brilliant. (you weren't walking a dog were you?);)
By: - 22nd June 2012 at 22:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
ah !...memories. I spent my adolescence lurking round that airfield and the adjacent railway. Many times I circumnavigated the field via the public footpaths, never saw any security ( timeframe late 50's/early 60's ).
If you walked down the A5 (as was) in Park Street during hot weather the hanger doors would be open to reveal Vics in various stages of manufacture - a carefully lobbed hand grenade could have taken out a fair bit of the V-force.
One old mystery cleared up for me - I often wondered what that pylon thingy was with the wheeled base on a circular track - now I know it was a rotary test rig.
Never had a camera in those days, and by the time I did, my interest in aircraft had waned and it was all over. I believe the runway was, on the odd occassion, used for drag racing in the 70's.Recently there have been attempts to obtain planning permission for a rail-freight depot on the site.
By: - 23rd June 2012 at 10:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
HP111 #1: word was that the government was deliberately withholding the (K.2) contract. HP111 does not infer an evil plot to destroy HP, though others have. There was no evil plot.
By 1957 UK had more Aero capacity than was needed for the Defence budget. Just as, earlier, UK had found itself with excess warship, excess munitions capacity. That which was State owned (ROFs) closed; that which was risk-financed either found new markets or died. See Darwin. The only new business on offer by MoS late,1957 was (to be) TSR.2, so Ministers imposed teaming. Everybody bid, teamed or solo. Losers either left the industry or scratched for civil work. Everybody...except Sir Fred., who was not for teaming.
He had allowed himself to be dissuaded from solo-bidding (to be) TSR.2 to concentrate on Victor 2, the superior vehicle for Blue Steel Mk.2. When that lapsed Skybolt Sister Firm Avro told MoA that HP would be unable to raise Victor to fit it, snug under Vulcan. So Victor 2 was confined to one Blue Steel Mk.1 Wing of 24, plus OCU/Majors reserve: 34 Victor 2 were built, the third Sqdn's quota delivered as SR.2.
Sir Fred died in ’62; HP was sustained by 12/64 fatigue demise of Valiant, replaced by 30 Victor K.1/A. To replace Varsity/Sea Prince MoA chose HP.137 Jetstream, begun ’66 with £1.25Mn. Treasury Launch Aid. Govt. caused USAF to option 300 as C-10A as F-111K offset, and RAF to order 26. None of this can be asserted as evil plot.
However, 16/1/68 Govt. cancelled F-111K, so DoD cancelled C-10A. Govt. by then cared not for HP’s (desir-)ability to survive: the Blue Steel Wing was phased out 1/10 and 31/12/68. SR.2s went through Radlett, 1969, for Majors, but 24 planned Victor K.2 conversions were held back, aborting work-sharing talks with HSAL, causing HP’s voluntary liquidation 8/8/69 (winding up, 27/2/70). (Avro)/Woodford got the lot, not because they were in any way "better" than HP, but because HS Group was financially robust.
By: - 23rd June 2012 at 10:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It has been said that Sir Fred. would have teamed had the price been right. The purpose behind the teaming was also the need for larger design teams, something that could not have been achieved with so many independent voices.
It is interesting to see the comment that the USAAF may have cavilled at the weight increase, but have no doubt that the F-111 cancellation was the main reason for the cancellation of the handful of Mk.3s being built. I have severe doubts whether the USAF would ever have gone ahead with the full order for 300 anyway, but it was still being held out as the company's Great White Hope. The weight increase was more a problem with the civil aircraft, where markets depended on single pilot operation at a low AUW, but the Garrets were heavier than the Astazou.
By: - 23rd June 2012 at 11:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What a blast from the past - great pics thanks!
I was a Production FTE with HP, in those days, on the Jetstream project. Towards the end those of us without families were leaned on, by the Chief FTE, to leave early if we had somewhere to go to. Two of my colleagues went off to be Flight Engineers (one to Balair on the DC6 and the other to Transmeridian on the CL44) and I went to Southern Ireland to become a flying instructor.
A year or so later I was involved with the ferrying of brand new Beagle Pups from the factory at Shoreham to Radlett where they were to be stored pending sale. I think HP and Beagle came under the same liquidator and the name Cork comes to mind. It was a most peculiar sensation taxying into the, by now, huge empty hangars where once I used to be involved with the Jetstream. I couldn't swear to it but we may have moved between 12-15 Pups in total.
Fast forward a few decades and flying over it the other day it is indeed very hard to pick up anything recogniseable.
It would probably have made a most useful commuter airport for quiet aircraft. Being next to a main railway line and the yet to be built M25 would have made it very useful for relieving congestion at LHR and LGW.
Hindsight etc.
Apols for thread drift!
By: - 23rd June 2012 at 12:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pertaining to the demise of Handley Page, the Jetstream project was delayed by a weight reduction programme, unfortunate but necessary. Then the US wanted various extra equipment in the C-10A. My impression was that this caused some consternation to the HP development staff. Individuals would sometimes appear on the production line enquiring in a concerned manner about where specific things went underfloor and how much space was available and how would you get at one thing without disturbing others, etc. It made me think the C-10A would not have been popular in service.
By: - 23rd June 2012 at 18:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I believe the runway was, on the odd occassion, used for drag racing in the 70's.
There would have been probably only two race meetings per year at most, more likely only one as part of the NDRC (National Drag Racing Club) national championship rounds. The last one would have been in '79 or '80, I was entered to race but my car was not ready so I did not attend, If only I had known it was to be the last...............
By: - 29th December 2013 at 16:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi guys
Apologies for bringing this thread back to life but I'm currently researching the Herald for a book and am looking for photos of G-ARTC withdrawn from use on the airfield. Can anyone help or recall her WFU top end of the airfield near the railway line? I understand she was scrapped in 1970 following HP's demise.
Posts: 635
By: HP111 - 21st June 2012 at 14:59
This set, taken on 29/3/1969, is from the last months of Handley Page. I was with Handley Page at the time. As photography on-site was a definite no-no, I contented myself with some general outside shots. The vantage point is the NW corner of Radlett airfield where conveniently there was an embankment as well as a public footpath. The theme is "how many Victors?" At the time there was a surfeit of Victors, and Radlett had been collecting B.2s as there was a plan was to convert them to tankers. Nothing happened however and the word was that the government was deliberately withholding the contract. The conversions were eventually done by Hawker Siddeley after Handley Page closed.
In the first picture there is one B.2 in the foreground and no less than 12 lined up against the railway embankment in the distance. Rail passengers on the St Pancras line in those days had a grandstand view of the long line of Victors.
Panning to the left reveals two more parked nearby.
Straight ahead shows, apart from the HP Social Club, cocooned components of an early Victor stored following some special testing (possibly XA923 but I'm not sure). In the right distance, parked on a dispersal point there are two, possibly three, Victors. One of these was XM715. It had been parked there for months with a cracked spar, but apparently money for repairs was not forthcoming. Whatever happened in the end, it survived into preservation.
Panning to the right shows the Park Street sheds and the disused B.1 XA918. Indoors at Park Street were B.1 XA919 and an unflown B.2 used as static fatigue testing airframes, an essential part of keeping the type safely airborne. Also, usually there was the work's trials machine B.1 XA922. This machine was notable for being in overall white but having replacement camouflaged outer wing panels. To the right of the sheds was the dump (sorry, outside storage area).
This shot from behind XA918 shows the Handley Page whirling arm test rig. More interestingly, on the port wing of XA918 can be seen evidence of its tanker development work.
In addition there were often one or two Victors receiving attention at the Radlett works. For instance, at about that time there were two SR.2s receiving preparation for the Daily Mail Transatlantic Air Race. If I remember rightly, this involved removing the underwing tanks, replacing the SR.2 bomb-bay equipment with two large tanker tanks and stripping the aircraft down to bare metal, painting overall with yellow primer (very fetching) and then with high gloss camouflage and white. It made an also present B.1 look very scruffy. So, that makes a total of 20 definite and possibly as many as 25 Victors at Radlett that day. That would be 28% of the total production and of the B.2s 52% of total production.
Incidentally, for locals in the know, a good place to observe factory activity at Radlett was from a public footpath along the south boundary of the airfield. The path followed a footbridge over the railway which gave a close-up grandstand view of the apron. Apparently you got harassed by security guards and police if you lingered or tried taking photographs. There were mutterings that some specific individuals frequently took their dogs for walks that way, deliberately so to speak. It was possibly one of the earliest places in the country with video surveillance.