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By: - 21st April 2010 at 08:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I personally would go along with RN, but only because i have seen them being used in newsreels on RN carriers.
By: - 21st April 2010 at 08:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I would agree with WF, I'm sure I've seen those in old FAA pics and newsreels, and from the late '40s and early '50s.
It would probably take Lee Howard to properly confirm.
Nice 'must haves' though!
Just quickly found these images (I know there are clearer ones out there), clearly show the above type bats. They were taken during land based carrier deck training.
They come from a fascinating webpage on James Henry Summerlee (of personal interest as he was my grandads boss on BEA choppers!), worth a a quick look in it's own right, especially for you Rob! http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.naval-history.net/WXMemoirSummerleeJC27c.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.naval-history.net/WXMemoirSummerleeJ2.htm&usg=__pqAd9vcJv_aRH-GVRo98pR6luYc=&h=670&w=550&sz=34&hl=en&start=26&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=-IyGHYtcLgfayM:&tbnh=138&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Droyal%2Bnavy%2Bcarrier%2Blanding%2Bbatsman%26start%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1
By: - 21st April 2010 at 10:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Royal Navy carrier landing 'bats'.
Would agree with Mark 12 about the 'cross fertilisation' of useful kit, after all we gave them the angled deck and the mirrored landing lights, only fair they could share the bats! Would imagine the solid bats became very heavy during an intense recovery session and the fabric type would have been easier on the arms. The attached photo is of a Panther during the Korean conflict indicating they were then extant and could well have been used for the Seafires on our (FAA) carriers. Regards, Brian S.
By: - 21st April 2010 at 11:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It's less for preventing tiredness and more for safety. A solid bat on the back of a carrier might catch the wind and the jet or prop wash and could either cause an involuntary arm motion or slow the batmans reactions up neither of which is desirable as the batman brought an aircraft in over the stern or in extreme circumstances might even pitch the batman over the side. The design was to prevent that happening.
By: - 21st April 2010 at 11:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just quickly found these images (I know there are clearer ones out there), clearly show the above type bats. They were taken during land based carrier deck training.
They come from a fascinating webpage on James Henry Summerlee (of personal interest as he was my grandads boss on BEA choppers!), worth a a quick look in it's own right, especially for you Rob!
Thanks for that James.. some excellent images on there.!
By: - 21st April 2010 at 12:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Can't help with the original question but here's a link to some very nice colour archives of US deck landing officers (mostly WWII).
Go to the page below and click on the 'carrier flagmen' link. Red or red/yellow flags in a circular metal frame seemed to be standard on US carriers...
http://www.historylink101.com/ww2_navy/org/aircarr/index.html
check out the last pic of the group (taken on Wasp) with some blurry Wildcats overhead - fascinating photo...
By: - 26th April 2010 at 22:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RN Carrier Bats
I have these bats in their original box with the brass plate still attached and showing their stores number. I will take a photo if this is any help. They are on display at the Cornwall at War museum.
By: - 26th April 2010 at 22:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I have these bats in their original box with the brass plate still attached and showing their stores number. I will take a photo if this is any help. They are on display at the Cornwall at War museum.
Yes please.
Mark
By: - 27th April 2010 at 08:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RN Landing Bats
Will do Mark. Am at museum on Thursday. I understand they are FAA bats and they are titled 'Flutter Bats'. Obviously it is intended that the silk strips would 'flutter' and the orange and pink silk would attract the eye as the colour alternated in the breeze.
By: - 27th April 2010 at 09:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
To further what Imsbtn said in post #7 above...
RN flag (bat) frame = square
USN flag (paddles) frame = round.
By: - 27th April 2010 at 16:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
[QUOTE=Bager1968;1572268]To further what Imsbtn said in post #7 above...
RN flag (bat) frame = square
USN flag (paddles) frame = round.
]/QUOTE]
....If the bats in my earlier post photo (#4) (Korean Panther recovery).. are round , then one of us should have gone to 'Specs*vers'...;)
By: - 27th April 2010 at 16:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
To further add fuel to the fire... I would suggest there was no hard and fast rule as to type of bats used by either navy...::confused:
By: - 27th April 2010 at 21:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It depends on the era, both the RN and USN used round bats in WWII and immediate period after, but then went to the square flappy affairs. The USN round frame with flappy bits illustrates well the evolution of the designs.
By: - 28th April 2010 at 07:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
To further what Imsbtn said in post #7 above...RN flag (bat) frame = square
USN flag (paddles) frame = round.
....If the bats in my earlier post photo (#4) (Korean Panther recovery).. are round , then one of us should have gone to 'Specs*vers'...;)
Aaaaggghhh!!!
Missed that shot, bms44... oops! :p:p
By: - 28th April 2010 at 09:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This could rumble on and on Bager1968.... but if you look closely at the Panther shot you could be forgiven for thinking the bats had been accentuated and drawn over rather crudely to make them stand out in the photo...there seems to be something not quite right.....probably a pencil...no Photoshop back then...:confused:
By: - 28th April 2010 at 12:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RN Carrier Landing Bats
I have been up to the museum today and these are the pics of the label attached to the box in which the Flutter Bats arrived together with a pic of the box and bats. Hope this helps.[ATTACH]184229[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]184230[/ATTACH]
By: - 28th April 2010 at 12:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
RN Carrier Landing Bats
Just to add a small item of interest there are spare silks in the box and spare 'wires' to attach them. The wires are obviously original and are bicycle spokes.
By: - 28th April 2010 at 13:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi Anne, it's interesting to see that the photo inside the display case illustrating the bats in use is the same one that I posted at the beginning, bit of a long shot, but do you know if these were Summerlees bats?
By: - 28th April 2010 at 14:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Can anybody confirm that '10/52' is date...just inside the Seafire window?
Annek. Many thanks.
Mark
Posts: 10,029
By: Mark12 - 21st April 2010 at 07:54
Whilst assisting a publisher to sprinkle some 'memorabilia collectibles' type shots into yet another book on the Spitfire/Seafire, a question has arisen as to whether the 'bats' in this image are of US or UK source.
These particular 'bats' in my collection are believed to have come from a RN surplus source in the UK but they carry no British section and reference numbers. A request on the WIX forum yielded a reply post and a PM in total conflict. One said definitely FAA, one that US Carriers used them.
Cross fertilisation of desirable 'kit' is not uncommon, Iraq boots etc, but can anybody confirm the the fluttering orange and pink bats were used by the FAA in the early 1950's. If a Seafire 47 in the Korean conflict or the Seafire XVII's in the post WWII Mediterranean fleet used them, the shot can be included.
Mark