By: SOC
- 26th April 2003 at 02:37Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Forget where I found this image at, but here's a possible look at an Indonesian Su-30MKI2 (a made up designation; Modified Kommercial for Indonesia, added the 2 to alleviate confusion with the Indian Su-30MKI) and an Indonesian Su-37.
By: Ja Worsley
- 26th April 2003 at 10:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Looks like we'll have to replace our pigs sooner and with something just as potent!
How does the FB-22 compare to the SU-35 and do you people think that it will be a viable option for the RAAF to aquire them?
New
Posts: 396
By: ad0nis
- 26th April 2003 at 15:46Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
SU-35
Ja viable Yes, but you need the political will to do so, since you are so closely aligned to America i cannot see it happening!
New
Posts: 676
By: troung
- 26th April 2003 at 19:39Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Could we be looking at a planned 24 Su-27SK and 24 Su-30MK in the long run. If they get the Su-30MK it could also be used as a lead in plane for the single seaters.
New
Posts: 676
By: troung
- 26th April 2003 at 20:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Indonesia to Re-Equip Air Force
SLOBODAN LEKIC
Associated Press
JAKARTA, Indonesia -Frustrated by Washington's long running embargo over arms sales because of human rights concerns, Indonesia plans to buy dozens of high-performance fighter bombers from Russia over the next several years.
The state Antara news agency reported Thursday that the deal was struck during a visit to Russia by President Megawati Sukarnoputri.
On Wednesday, she toured a testing ground for Sukhoi fighter jets in Zhukovsky outside Moscow and watched the performance of a Su-27 fighter jet.
The two governments have agreed to improve overall trade ties. However, the focus of Megawati's visit appears to have been procuring Russian jets, helicopters and armored vehicles to modernize Indonesia's obsolescent armed forces.
Indonesia had looked to the United States for its military needs since the 1960s after then-dictator Gen. Suharto seized power from Sukarno, the country's founding president and Megawati's father.
Annual arms purchases peaked at $400 million in the 1980s.
In 1991, however, the U.S. Congress banned exports after Indonesian troops killed hundreds of civilians in East Timor.
In 1999, East Timor seceded, but only after Indonesian forces and pro-Indonesian militias laid waste to the territory as the military withdrew after a pro-independence referendum. The destruction prompted U.S. lawmakers to extend the ban to cover almost all military ties with Jakarta.
Since then, some members of the Bush administration - particularly Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, a former ambassador to Jakarta - have pushed for the ban to be repealed. They argue that Jakarta's generals should be engaged not shunned despite their human rights abuses.
The embargo and resulting lack of spare parts has had a devastating effect on the serviceability of all U.S. weapons systems in the Indonesian inventory. But the air force has been particularly severely hit.
Only half of its 10 F-16 Falcons and 24 F-5E Tiger fighters are considered airworthy, while an entire 12-plane attack squadron of Skyhawk jets had to be grounded.
Speaking in Moscow, Indonesia's military chief Gen. Endriartono Sutarto said the country would purchase an initial batch of two long-range Su-27 and two Su-30 jets to be delivered this year. At least 44 other planes will be delivered over the next four years, Sutarto said.
"We have decided to buy these jet fighters and ideally we need four squadrons of 12 planes each," he said as quoted by Antara.
The Sukhois will likely replace all U.S.-made jets in the Indonesian inventory, except for the F-16s which may soldier on as fighter-bombers. Their 1,800-mile range will allow them to patrol the vast Indonesian archipelago better than the short-range U.S. jets.
By: ink
- 27th April 2003 at 15:21Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I get the feeling that we're getting a little carried away with this... After all, the Indonesians have taken us this far before and dropped out.
New
By: Anonymous
- 28th April 2003 at 04:54Permalink- Edited 16th October 2019 at 10:06
"After all, the Indonesians have taken us this far before and dropped out."
That did have something to do with financial problems felt throughout the region. They certainly need to replace their aircraft at sometime and the Flanker series certainly offers them the range they need.
By: duotiga
- 28th April 2003 at 08:03Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
any1 think how the weapons packages will b like??? any ideas?
P: i am not saying just AAM onli, AGM weapons also......
New
Posts: 23
By: superhornet64
- 28th April 2003 at 09:10Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Originally posted by duotiga any1 think how the weapons packages will b like??? any ideas?
Well i dont think they will ask for the R-77 yet bcoz they have only 4 platforms to deliver it. (2 su30 and 2 su27)
if they ordered the R-77, that will pave the way for the RSAF to get their 100 AIM-120Cs stored in the US and more additional AMRAAMs.
But when the TNI-AU get a SQN or 2 of Flankers they might ask for the R-77. Now aint a right time. Singapore will get the adavantage- Thailand and Malaysia too..in the form of AMRAAm.
By: crobato
- 28th April 2003 at 14:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The purchase seems to me more like a "feeling" thing to help decide something bigger. My bet is that the SU-27 being ordered here are probably the multirole SU-27 recently tested (SU-27SM) which is basically an SU-27SK wedded with the SU-30MKK weapons/fire control system. Looking at it from another point of view, this SU-27SM is just the SU-30KI resurrected, just maybe, with or without the refueling probe.
I think the 48 aircraft consists of a small nucleus of more advanced SU-30MK as the high end supported by a much larger group of SU-27SM/30KI, plus a few SU-27UBM for trainers.
BTW, the price $32 million, means these are brand new airframes for the SU-27s, not recycled (cost of a second hand low mileage SU-27 should be about $12 million).
By: SOC
- 29th April 2003 at 00:09Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I can see Indonesia getting the R-77 eventually, since Malaysia already has the weapon for its MiG-29Ns. And yes, this opens the way for a Singaporean delivery of AMRAAM.
Crobato's "feeling" idea seems logical; they could be getting the aircraft to get some pilots trained before they spend the money (or resources) on more airframes. After all, 40 FLANKERs and 5 trained pilots translates to 5 usable aircraft anyway.
New
Posts: 23
By: superhornet64
- 29th April 2003 at 01:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Originally posted by SOC I can see Indonesia getting the R-77 eventually, since Malaysia already has the weapon for its MiG-29Ns. And yes, this opens the way for a Singaporean delivery of AMRAAM.
Crobato's "feeling" idea seems logical; they could be getting the aircraft to get some pilots trained before they spend the money (or resources) on more airframes. After all, 40 FLANKERs and 5 trained pilots translates to 5 usable aircraft anyway.
actually, officially the RMAF dont have the Adder yet although it is widely believed that they have recieved it.
Posts: 12,009
By: SOC - 26th April 2003 at 02:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Forget where I found this image at, but here's a possible look at an Indonesian Su-30MKI2 (a made up designation; Modified Kommercial for Indonesia, added the 2 to alleviate confusion with the Indian Su-30MKI) and an Indonesian Su-37.
Posts: 6,208
By: Ja Worsley - 26th April 2003 at 10:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Looks like we'll have to replace our pigs sooner and with something just as potent!
How does the FB-22 compare to the SU-35 and do you people think that it will be a viable option for the RAAF to aquire them?
Posts: 396
By: ad0nis - 26th April 2003 at 15:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
SU-35
Ja viable Yes, but you need the political will to do so, since you are so closely aligned to America i cannot see it happening!
Posts: 676
By: troung - 26th April 2003 at 19:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Could we be looking at a planned 24 Su-27SK and 24 Su-30MK in the long run. If they get the Su-30MK it could also be used as a lead in plane for the single seaters.
Posts: 676
By: troung - 26th April 2003 at 20:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Indonesia to Re-Equip Air Force
SLOBODAN LEKIC
Associated Press
JAKARTA, Indonesia -Frustrated by Washington's long running embargo over arms sales because of human rights concerns, Indonesia plans to buy dozens of high-performance fighter bombers from Russia over the next several years.
The state Antara news agency reported Thursday that the deal was struck during a visit to Russia by President Megawati Sukarnoputri.
On Wednesday, she toured a testing ground for Sukhoi fighter jets in Zhukovsky outside Moscow and watched the performance of a Su-27 fighter jet.
The two governments have agreed to improve overall trade ties. However, the focus of Megawati's visit appears to have been procuring Russian jets, helicopters and armored vehicles to modernize Indonesia's obsolescent armed forces.
Indonesia had looked to the United States for its military needs since the 1960s after then-dictator Gen. Suharto seized power from Sukarno, the country's founding president and Megawati's father.
Annual arms purchases peaked at $400 million in the 1980s.
In 1991, however, the U.S. Congress banned exports after Indonesian troops killed hundreds of civilians in East Timor.
In 1999, East Timor seceded, but only after Indonesian forces and pro-Indonesian militias laid waste to the territory as the military withdrew after a pro-independence referendum. The destruction prompted U.S. lawmakers to extend the ban to cover almost all military ties with Jakarta.
Since then, some members of the Bush administration - particularly Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, a former ambassador to Jakarta - have pushed for the ban to be repealed. They argue that Jakarta's generals should be engaged not shunned despite their human rights abuses.
The embargo and resulting lack of spare parts has had a devastating effect on the serviceability of all U.S. weapons systems in the Indonesian inventory. But the air force has been particularly severely hit.
Only half of its 10 F-16 Falcons and 24 F-5E Tiger fighters are considered airworthy, while an entire 12-plane attack squadron of Skyhawk jets had to be grounded.
Speaking in Moscow, Indonesia's military chief Gen. Endriartono Sutarto said the country would purchase an initial batch of two long-range Su-27 and two Su-30 jets to be delivered this year. At least 44 other planes will be delivered over the next four years, Sutarto said.
"We have decided to buy these jet fighters and ideally we need four squadrons of 12 planes each," he said as quoted by Antara.
The Sukhois will likely replace all U.S.-made jets in the Indonesian inventory, except for the F-16s which may soldier on as fighter-bombers. Their 1,800-mile range will allow them to patrol the vast Indonesian archipelago better than the short-range U.S. jets.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/politics/5705671.htm
Posts: 3,269
By: ink - 27th April 2003 at 15:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I get the feeling that we're getting a little carried away with this... After all, the Indonesians have taken us this far before and dropped out.
By: Anonymous - 28th April 2003 at 04:54 Permalink - Edited 16th October 2019 at 10:06
"After all, the Indonesians have taken us this far before and dropped out."
That did have something to do with financial problems felt throughout the region. They certainly need to replace their aircraft at sometime and the Flanker series certainly offers them the range they need.
Posts: 817
By: duotiga - 28th April 2003 at 08:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
any1 think how the weapons packages will b like??? any ideas?
P: i am not saying just AAM onli, AGM weapons also......
Posts: 23
By: superhornet64 - 28th April 2003 at 09:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well i dont think they will ask for the R-77 yet bcoz they have only 4 platforms to deliver it. (2 su30 and 2 su27)
if they ordered the R-77, that will pave the way for the RSAF to get their 100 AIM-120Cs stored in the US and more additional AMRAAMs.
But when the TNI-AU get a SQN or 2 of Flankers they might ask for the R-77. Now aint a right time. Singapore will get the adavantage- Thailand and Malaysia too..in the form of AMRAAm.
Posts: 6,409
By: crobato - 28th April 2003 at 14:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The purchase seems to me more like a "feeling" thing to help decide something bigger. My bet is that the SU-27 being ordered here are probably the multirole SU-27 recently tested (SU-27SM) which is basically an SU-27SK wedded with the SU-30MKK weapons/fire control system. Looking at it from another point of view, this SU-27SM is just the SU-30KI resurrected, just maybe, with or without the refueling probe.
I think the 48 aircraft consists of a small nucleus of more advanced SU-30MK as the high end supported by a much larger group of SU-27SM/30KI, plus a few SU-27UBM for trainers.
BTW, the price $32 million, means these are brand new airframes for the SU-27s, not recycled (cost of a second hand low mileage SU-27 should be about $12 million).
Posts: 12,009
By: SOC - 29th April 2003 at 00:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I can see Indonesia getting the R-77 eventually, since Malaysia already has the weapon for its MiG-29Ns. And yes, this opens the way for a Singaporean delivery of AMRAAM.
Crobato's "feeling" idea seems logical; they could be getting the aircraft to get some pilots trained before they spend the money (or resources) on more airframes. After all, 40 FLANKERs and 5 trained pilots translates to 5 usable aircraft anyway.
Posts: 23
By: superhornet64 - 29th April 2003 at 01:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
actually, officially the RMAF dont have the Adder yet although it is widely believed that they have recieved it.