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By: - 13th October 2005 at 22:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks. I think those are the 'real' Indonesian jets....
By: - 14th October 2005 at 01:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
they have MKKs, just go to ACIG to see the pics. They have the square tipped fins like you see on PLAAF MKKs, two seats, etc. They use a snow like camouflage scheme..which is odd.
By: - 14th October 2005 at 17:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Indonesia has four Sukhois in service which include two Su-30 and two Su-27SK. Originally they planned to buy more to make twelve, but the Indonesian government might not go ahead with the buy because of the tsunami last year, add to the burden of high fuel prices in Indonesia means that the TNI-AU will not purchase anymore Sukhois in the next few years.
By: - 14th October 2005 at 20:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A few pics of the TNI-AU SU-30MKK's:
By: - 14th October 2005 at 20:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And here is a color profile:
By: - 15th October 2005 at 02:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I read an article the other week by Australian defence analysts who said there was a team of Indonesian Officials heading to Moscow to have talks. They pretty sure that its about Indonesia requesting to purchase the 48 SU-30's they've been after for years and also other arms deals like new advanced subs, and other new equipment. There talking that it will cause an arms race in South East Asia.
Australia would most likely look at changing its position on its plan of just buying F-35 JSF. Defence Experts here are talking about Australia should buy 50 F-22 Raptors and have 36 Evolved F-111's. In American articles and Australian ones to, they keep bringing up that Australia could be a prime candidate for the F/A-22.
All this stuff is what I have been reading, I'm no expert on all this. Just giving you all information that you all might not be getting.
By: - 15th October 2005 at 04:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sukhois, subs and more?
Where will Indonesia get the money, don't they have a lot of problems with their economy?
By: - 15th October 2005 at 04:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
as of now they dont seem able to spare some paint to get rid of the russian polar paint job.
were the Aus defence analysts led by one Carlo Kopp :) ? I admire his knack for explaining complex products and his beautiful charts but he's a bit paranoid about the threat from asia to put it mildly...
By: - 15th October 2005 at 06:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Dr Kopp has fallen foul of both Political defence forums and National Press Editors down here, he's not been heard of in the last six months after the last incident where he yelled at Senetor Robert Hill calling him a blind dim wit how couldn't tell his head from his... you get the idea.
It is true that Indonesian officials have been making many trips to Russia to secure new weapons, the way that they are trying to make the deal is by Barter, Indonesia has a lot to offer Russia, especially in the form of raw wood, Indonesia has been clearing out something like four forrests a year off Iryian Jaya and the locals aren't happy because they don't get any wood for themselves.
It's recently been reported in Jane's that the whole military is about to undergo a major force restructure and upgrade, though I doubt the TNI-AN will get Kilo's but the deal is all but done for the TNI-AU to get many more Su's, though if these are to be 27's or the much sort after 30's is anyone guess.
In defence of my country I can clearly state now that the Politin Canberra have started to see the light and are now thinking that the order for 100 F-35's will not be enough and also thatthese planes, whilest promising much- are still yet to deliver the most basic of promise. They are also talking now that a purchase of another type might be needed to help out, though I am not going to say what is being spoken of. They also realise that given the current sentiment of multi national deployments globally, if we were to buy only 100 F-35's and send some to two different spots aroud the world (say Enforcing a no fly zone in Iraq [example only ok], and send some over to take part in a Red Flag), there would be nothing at home to stop any threat. This has been the real wake up call and now the government is starting to think (finally) about it's position.
By: - 15th October 2005 at 08:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
?
I never get to understand why Australia is so afraid of Indonesia.
First, our Arms force is very poor in terms of equipment.
Second we have no ability to support any campaign against other nation, never mind Australia, we can not even project our power to stop Malaysia from intruding to our teritory.
Third, why do we need to attack AUstralia, we have enough history with East Timor.
Last, their arms forces and their allies arms forces are light years away from Indonesian Arm forces. We might be poor, but we are not stupid enough to provoke war agaisnt one of the major allies of USA.
BTW, in my opinion, the arms races think is complete nonsense. If you wnat to talk about arms races, you should talk about Malaysia and SIngapore plans for their military procurement. THe reason why the Sukhois were bought is to replace our obsolete A-4 and F-5, both which are hardly flying due to the arms embargo. We are only trying to defend our territory. Even if we have couple of squadron of SU-27/30, they are the only operable fighter squadron except of couple of the F-16s that is still flyable to defend the whole indonesia.
I wish we can get some squadron of SU-27/30 which is my wildest dream due to the financial difficulties we have from oil price and tsunami.
By: - 15th October 2005 at 08:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sukhois, subs and more?Where will Indonesia get the money, don't they have a lot of problems with their economy?
it's gotten better. Infact the big 3.. Argentina, Russia, and Indonesia, who weren't doing to well in the last decade.. have rapidly growing GDPs. especially the Argies.
By: - 15th October 2005 at 10:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm not a big fan of Carlo Kopp and his paranoia, because this is the 21st century not the early 1900s when the Japs still rule the seas in the Pacific. The threat posed by Asian countries are nothing more then an over exaggeration, created by xenophobia such and such.
If you look at the real facts, Australia's neighbours would benefit more from being at peace then going to war. I'm not going into details but let just say that trade and economics is the key which hold everyone together.
As for the Indonesian threat, this country has problems of its own so I don't think they will be going around dropping bombs. And the only real threat posed by Indonesia are those terrorists, not the TNI.
By: - 17th October 2005 at 10:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm not a big fan of Carlo Kopp and his paranoia, because this is the 21st century not the early 1900s when the Japs still rule the seas in the Pacific. The threat posed by Asian countries are nothing more then an over exaggeration, created by xenophobia such and such.
.
Any highly nationalistic statments made by politicians in the region are picked up in the Australian media, and do have a big impact. Sure Australia is not, in most cases, the intended audience, but it ends up being the audience.
By: - 19th November 2005 at 08:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Dirgantara Proposes Counter Trade System
(Source: Dirgantara (Indonesian Aerospace); dated Nov. 14, web-posted Nov. 17, 2005)
Counter trade system as one of ways in business is now proposed by Dirgantara Indonesia, as according to Dirgantara Director of Operational and Production, Budiwuraskito, it can save the country foreign exchange and also Dirgantara will benefit from it.
In this case Indonesia will import some food commodities from some countries, while Dirgantara will trade its products to those countries.
Indonesian government once ever conducted the counter trade system by counter-trading Dirgantara products with some commodities from some countries. Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia are of the countries that are proposed today to cooperate in this system.
Since the monetary crisis in 1998, Dirgantara had been able to sell and deliver only two units of CN-235 aircraft annually, while actually it is able to produce six units of such type of aircraft.
Counter trade system is hoped to ease Dirgantara in selling its products and also it is expected to be more profitable in producing aircraft and there will not be any more employee dismissals.
-ends-
By: - 19th November 2005 at 09:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If the deal doesnt work out maybe they could start asking western AF's to come evaliuate the su-30MKK for something like 30 mill a pop :D
By: - 19th November 2005 at 10:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If the deal doesnt work out maybe they could start asking western AF's to come evaliuate the su-30MKK for something like 30 mill a pop :D
more like 45-50 mill a pop nowadays.
By: - 19th November 2005 at 13:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Australian Air Force is screwed up... ;) Moving from a combined F-18/F-111 force to a F-35 standardized one is pointless and risky, the JSF is still years away in terms of actual squadrons using it, and there are still very lingering doubts about what eventually will the "export cleared" aircraft be like...
The unforseen Iraq War expenses could (should?!) wreak havok with the R&D dollars in the Pentagon Budget, and almost anything could happens from delays to an outright cancellation of the whole thing..
To me the Su-35/Su-30 Super Flanker would be the ideal aircraft to substitute both curerrent fighters, but since Australians are way too conservative for such a novel approach maybe a stop-gap order of some 30-40 F-15 Strike Eagles would be a nice hedge against possible F-35 risks...
Comments?
Hammer
By: - 19th November 2005 at 15:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
more like 45-50 mill a pop nowadays.
Wasnt talking bout selling them just letting them evaluate it so they can simulate it better.
By: - 20th November 2005 at 11:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Australian Air Force is screwed up... ;) Moving from a combined F-18/F-111 force to a F-35 standardized one is pointless and risky, the JSF is still years away in terms of actual squadrons using it, and there are still very lingering doubts about what eventually will the "export cleared" aircraft be like...The unforseen Iraq War expenses could (should?!) wreak havok with the R&D dollars in the Pentagon Budget, and almost anything could happens from delays to an outright cancellation of the whole thing..
To me the Su-35/Su-30 Super Flanker would be the ideal aircraft to substitute both curerrent fighters, but since Australians are way too conservative for such a novel approach maybe a stop-gap order of some 30-40 F-15 Strike Eagles would be a nice hedge against possible F-35 risks...
Comments?
Hammer
The F-111's are useless hunks of junk that only serve to make the Australians feel like they're a super power. They have been grounded often and are useless in coalition style ops due to their extremely unique systems (no-one other than the RAAF uses it).
Australians are still paranoid about Asia. Remember that the reason why the country was federated was to provide a unified strength against the "Asian Hordes"/"Yellow Peril." Australian foreign policy has up to the 1970's been based on defending Australia from Asia by maintaining a relatively modern military and maintaining alliances with like minded Anglo-Saxon countries such as the UK, the USA and New Zealand.
Even while at Uni, I saw young students talk about the threat Indonesia, China and even Japan pose to Australia.
It doesn't help that Australians are almost as insular as Americans when it comes to the world.
Posts: 2,357
By: Jackonicko - 13th October 2005 at 16:09
What's the story?
Demonstrated, ordered, cancelled (ten of the aircraft going to India), demonstrated again, small number (four?) delivered and now in service?
I'm sure I remember seeing pics of the original two aircraft being unloaded from an An-124 to be demonstrated, and that these wore Indonesian markings, leading to reports that they'd entered service, but I now can't find them. Can anyone help?
I think the aircraft I'm referring to differed from the in service aircraft whose pictures are scattered across the web more widely.