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By: - 28th November 2015 at 16:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://su-27flanker.com/2014/12/05/american-flankers/
http://www.prideaircraft.com/flanker.htm
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/someone-in-the-us-owns-two-su-27s-1684069861
not operational / flyable any more I think.
By: - 28th November 2015 at 16:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good links man !
I remember someone wrote sometime ago that there was a Discovery channel or whatever documentary showing DACT between this and the F-22.
Anyone remembers what docu was that ? Where can we see it ?
By: - 28th November 2015 at 17:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some sightings of the Su-27s claimed to have come from Belarus in the 1990s.
2003 sighting filmed from Tikaboo Peak. You can see the classic Su-27 planform at 1:08
Video description
SU-27 and Mig-29 plus Gulfstream 2 N105TB (5TB with a stylised S is STB or Seeker Test Bed) of MIT operational over Groom Lake,Nevada. Filmed from Tikaboo Peak, 26 miles away.
More Groom Lake sightings.
2004
http://www.lazygranch.com/groom_lake_birds.htm
2012
http://www.dreamlandresort.com/trip_reports/trip_141.html
Last week from Alamo, NV we watched a Su-27 dogfighting with a F-15 for 45mins to the east of Groom Lake approx 0715-0800, flares n all fromthe F-15. The Su-27 was the same all blue with white nose colour scheme as that seen 9 years ago.
Photo is pretty rubbish but....
The Groom Lake Su-27(s)? were claimed to have been from Belarus and obtained during 1995. Claimed to have been seen on an An-124 that fuel stopped at Prestick, Scotland on 26th November 1995.
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?18311-Su-27-in-the-USA&p=219616#post219616
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?18311-Su-27-in-the-USA&p=219089#post219089
By: - 29th November 2015 at 17:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The USAF operated MiG-17, MiG-21, and MiG-23 aircraft during the 1970's and 80's at Groom Lake. When it was decided that these types really posed no threat to USAF/USN operations (it was a composite sqdn), the program was canceled. I see no reason why they wouldn't do the same for the MiG-29 and the Su-27 series of aircraft, albeit hush hush in this case. I can't wait to read about the USAF's take on these types in 10, 20 years like I did about the previous MiGs.
By: - 29th November 2015 at 18:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The USAF operated MiG-17, MiG-21, and MiG-23 aircraft during the 1970's and 80's at Groom Lake. When it was decided that these types really posed no threat to USAF/USN operations (it was a composite sqdn), the program was canceled. I see no reason why they wouldn't do the same for the MiG-29 and the Su-27 series of aircraft, albeit hush hush in this case. I can't wait to read about the USAF's take on these types in 10, 20 years like I did about the previous MiGs.
There's been a continuous flow of USSR fighters into the USA ever since the 1950's. They've been scrutinized down to the last millimeter, and several dozens have been flown for both evaluation and actual DACT.
Nearly none the other way (one F-5E made its way to Moscow through Vietnam I reckon, but that's the only one I can think of).
I find it a bit fascinating from an intelligence perspective.
By: - 29th November 2015 at 21:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'd imagine the Ukrainian's wish they had these aircraft still in their inventory.
By: - 29th November 2015 at 22:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There's been a continuous flow of USSR fighters into the USA ever since the 1950's. They've been scrutinized down to the last millimeter, and several dozens have been flown for both evaluation and actual DACT.Nearly none the other way (one F-5E made its way to Moscow through Vietnam I reckon, but that's the only one I can think of).
I find it a bit fascinating from an intelligence perspective.
Why is that anyway? Not like there wasn't opportunity to get F-4 and F-14 from Iran. Maybe they just don't talk about it.
By: - 29th November 2015 at 22:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'd imagine the Ukrainian's wish they had these aircraft still in their inventory.
Let's be honest, they wouldn't change squat.
The most absurd story of post Cold War "weapons intelligence was the sale of S-300V to the United States- FROM RUSSIA by the maker!
By: - 29th November 2015 at 23:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The ones bought from Ukraine.They were bought and refurbished by Pride Aircraft and sold approx. 2010 , no one knows but probably USAF.What was their story, I mean besides the cover one that some enthusiast rich dude wanted some fancy toys.
It`s pretty clear they were used for DACT, but do you guys have movies with them ?
I`am interested in material of States usage
Cheers
By: - 30th November 2015 at 09:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Let's be honest, they wouldn't change squat.The most absurd story of post Cold War "weapons intelligence was the sale of S-300V to the United States- FROM RUSSIA by the maker!
But is it true that at one point in time the Pentagon managed to acquire a version of the S-300 ?
By: - 30th November 2015 at 10:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
But is it true that at one point in time the Pentagon managed to acquire a version of the S-300 ?
S-300s ended up in the West during the 1990s. Corruption was rife in CIS during the 1990s. Belarus was a prime source of such dodgy dealings. All the U.S., and others, had to do was splash the cash. The Belarus economy hit rock bottom and systems were sold to interested parties willing to fork out hard currency. The Chinese are reported to have splashed the cash in Belarus for access to hardware and technology. It was deemed as easy pickings for those wanting access to Russian hardware and technology.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/belarus/sov94249.htm
The most interesting facility found at Tolicha Peak is the S-300P launch site. It would appear that a nearly complete collection of radars is present, as well as two TELs and a 40V6 mast assembly. The 40V6 is used to mount either the 5N63S (FLAP LID) engagement radar or the 76N6 (CLAM SHELL) low altitude detection radar on a 23.8 meter mast to provide better performance in areas with varied terrain or vegetation. The shadow cast by the southern 5P85 TEL seems to indicate that it is a 5P85S, complete with the control compartment for controlling the adjacent 5P85D TEL. The vehicle which is most likely the 5N63S engagement radar vehicle appears to have the radar array lowered in the travel configuration. Given the presence of the mobile TELs and the mobile 5N63S radar, the system present here is likely either an S-300PS or export-standard S-300PMU.
Tolicha Peak, Nevada
From
http://geimint.blogspot.co.uk/2007/08/us-restricted-and-classified-test-sites.html
Tin Shield at RAF Spadeadam range in the UK
Tin Shield map location
By: - 30th November 2015 at 12:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good info there TEEj, so the americans got to look first hand at russia`s most important AD system
By: - 30th November 2015 at 13:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good info there TEEj, so the americans got to look first hand at russia`s most important AD system
yeap, that is why they have been so confident for a number of years.
By: - 30th November 2015 at 15:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm certain the Iranians let the Russians have a real nice look at the F-4, and the F-14. Not that the timeline matches up completely, but the MiG-31's primary weapons system greatly resembles that of the F-14. Wouldn't be surprised if Venezuela let the Russians have a look at the F-16. I'd also wager that Pakistan let the Chinese have a close look at the F-16C/D Block 52.
By: - 30th November 2015 at 16:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good info there TEEj, so the americans got to look first hand at russia`s most important AD system
Old S-300P sites are not of much concern. A bigger leak was Russia itself selling S-300V components to the US (granted, in dodgy state of function) because at the time the factory was literally about to close and could not pay its workers. With the money from the sale, they were able to continue work on S-300VM. Almaz-Anteii itself has been open about this.
Now of course, Russian S-300PM sites have all gone through a number of electronic upgrade rounds and the S-300V fleet is well on its way to S-300V4 modernization, so those intelligence leaks are not too relevant anymore. In the 90s though it could have been a serious source of trouble as the park was in no state of being modernized.
By: - 30th November 2015 at 16:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm certain the Iranians let the Russians have a real nice look at the F-4, and the F-14. Not that the timeline matches up completely, but the MiG-31's primary weapons system greatly resembles that of the F-14. Wouldn't be surprised if Venezuela let the Russians have a look at the F-16. I'd also wager that Pakistan let the Chinese have a close look at the F-16C/D Block 52.
Well the MiG-31 have nothing in common with F-14. The Zaslon WCS AFAIK.. already under test since 1973. The resemblance between R-33 and AIM-54 are superficial.
The only thing similar is that they were purposed to hunt cruise missile, a power aperture intensive requirement.
By: - 30th November 2015 at 17:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm certain the Iranians let the Russians have a real nice look at the F-4, and the F-14. Not that the timeline matches up completely, but the MiG-31's primary weapons system greatly resembles that of the F-14. Wouldn't be surprised if Venezuela let the Russians have a look at the F-16. I'd also wager that Pakistan let the Chinese have a close look at the F-16C/D Block 52.
Well, "having a look at" is one thing, getting to spend a whole lot of quality time with airworthy frames is another. That said though, I'm sure Soviet (and later Russian) agents have been all over the place, but I do maintain that they've been at an intelligence disadvantage.
Regarding the massive fire sale in the CIS post-1990 that TEEJ hinted at, there was a whole ton of that stuff going on here in Scandinavia too. Soviet military equipment was bought up en masse (from corrupt officers and poverty-stricken personnel who hadn't received a dime in months) and shipped to Sweden during those years (including stuff straight from the RSFSR itself). Check out the Roberth Winton spy affair, the Peter Nordström spy affair and so on, super interesting stuff. I wrote a little bit about it back in the Gripen thread a good while ago (the RSFSR-specification Flanker radars were of great interest to Sweden at that point in time, and of course to Swedens "unofficial" allies in NATO).
I can't help but thinking that the reason for the uber-friendy relations with Russia at that time were solely based in the fact that it was extremely poor, generally weak and a whole lot of its defense-related secrets had been laid out bare. Few F's were given about Yeltsins many faults, about the atrocities in Chechnya, about the escalating mafia rampage etc. When it started getting on its feet again and all of that crap began to change (for the better if you ask the Russians themselves), so did relations. Even people responsible for that dysfunctional society and directly involved with that criminal mayhem suddenly became "good guys" hereabouts simply because they wound up at odds with the "new order". Heh, but that's a topic for a whole other kind of discussion probably not suited for this forum. Pardon me.
By: - 30th November 2015 at 20:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well the MiG-31 have nothing in common with F-14. The Zaslon WCS AFAIK.. already under test since 1973. The resemblance between R-33 and AIM-54 are superficial.The only thing similar is that they were purposed to hunt cruise missile, a power aperture intensive requirement.
Anyone who doesn't know the difference between the radars, FCS, and main missile armament of both the F-14 and the MiG-31 - shouldn't be posting in this forum.
By: - 30th November 2015 at 20:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm certain the Iranians let the Russians have a real nice look at the F-4, and the F-14. Not that the timeline matches up completely, but the MiG-31's primary weapons system greatly resembles that of the F-14. Wouldn't be surprised if Venezuela let the Russians have a look at the F-16. I'd also wager that Pakistan let the Chinese have a close look at the F-16C/D Block 52.
I would even think Chinese have knowledge of all the dealings of Pakistan with Arabs for past 50 years. Untill Pakistan stab them on back in Yemen issue.
By: - 30th November 2015 at 22:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well the MiG-31 have nothing in common with F-14. The Zaslon WCS AFAIK.. already under test since 1973. The resemblance between R-33 and AIM-54 are superficial.The only thing similar is that they were purposed to hunt cruise missile, a power aperture intensive requirement.
Disagree. The principle behind the designs are the same idea. Fleet defense, and border defense. Big aircraft with big RADAR, and four big missiles semi-recessed underneath. Two-man crew, twin engines, twin vertical stabilizers, dedicated mission (not a pound for air to ground). I'd say there is a great deal of similarity.
Posts: 151
By: mikoyan - 28th November 2015 at 15:58
The ones bought from Ukraine.
What was their story, I mean besides the cover one that some enthusiast rich dude wanted some fancy toys.
It`s pretty clear they were used for DACT, but do you guys have movies with them ?
I`am interested in material of States usage
Cheers