By: harryRIEDL
- 17th November 2006 at 21:04Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
has the IN ever used the troop carrying the ablity on
hermes as they didn't refit it back and still have the commando carrier converstion.
is hermes beam to small to take migs?
do the IN have the oldest carrier in commison anywer.
By: Bager1968
- 20th November 2006 at 09:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Amidships even with the island, and starboard aft of the island... they are smaller than the aircraft elevators on other carriers.
The first drawing shows the original elevator positions [top view is the original layout with bow missiles, and the lower ones are early modification plans], while the second one is supposed to show the new elevator positions.
By: Bager1968
- 21st November 2006 at 07:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In post #98 [pg 4], Obi Wan Russell wrote:
"I think you are referring to the post CVA-01 cancellation offer by the US Government in 1966 of THREE Essex class CVs to the RN in order to keep it's main ally in the carrier club. The actual ships have not been named, although most writers assumed they would be three of the six SCB-27C/ SCB-125 modernisations (ie two steam catapults, angled deck, hurricane bow etc) but now it seems they may have been offering unmodernised vessel held in reserve which could be modernised to British standards as a 'blank slate' (British catapults, arrestor gear, radars etc)."
There were 4 basically unmodified Essex class carriers available in 1966 (plus 3 with relatively minor modifications):
CVS-13 Franklin – decom 17/2/47; stricken 1/10/64 (sold for scrap 27/7/66 [AVT-8 1959])
CVS-17 Bunker Hill – decom 9/1/47; stkn 1/11/66 (test ship > Nov 1972; Scrapped 1973[AVT-9 1959])
{both of these were being held for "ultimate modernization" after having been repaired from severe battle damage in WW2}
CVS-32 Leyte – decom 15/5/59; stkn 1/12/69 (sold for scrap _/_/70 [AVT-10 1959])
CVS-47 Philippine Sea – decom 28/12/58; stkn 1/12/69 (sold for scrap _/3/71 [AVT-11 1959])
CVS-36 Antietam – decom 8/5/63; stkn 1/5/73 (sold for scrap 28/2/74 [CVT-36 1957])
{had been the test ship for USN angle deck experiments, and had only a small angle extension (without a supporting sponson), and no other significant improvements)}
CVS-39 Lake Champlain – decom 2/5/66; stkn 1/12/69 (sold for scrap 28/4/72)
CVS-40 Tarawa – decom 13/5/60; stkn 1/6/67 (sold for scrap 3/10/68 [AVT-12 1961])
{these had the basic SCB-27A upgrade, but were not fitted with an angle deck}
Bunker Hill, Leyte, and Phillippine Sea seem to be the most likely, as they were the ones with the least usage... Franklin was likely already well stripped of useful equipment for the ships still in active service.
"Ultimate" Reconstruction: This was a never-realized program to upgrade Essex class ships to a final, completely modern configuration. The SCB-27A/27C programs were seen as a temporary measure pending development of an "ultimate" configuration for the class. Ships of this configuration would have operated with the "supercarrier" United States in large nuclear-strike groups. The design would have been completely flush-decked, with no island at all.
With the death of United States and the development of the angled deck, the "ultimate" plan was reconfigured but probably stayed alive. It is unclear when it was realized that the "ultimate" modernization of Essex class ships should be dropped in favor of SCB 125 and new construction.
Two ships were excluded from other modernization programs to make them available for the "ultimate" conversion -- Bunker Hill and Franklin. These ships had been heavily damaged near the end of the war, fully repaired, and laid up in excellent condition. Ultimately they went to the breakers unmodified.
SCB 27A: First major upgrade program applied to Essex class. This was a general, all-around upgrade, including a completely rebuilt and reconfigured island, strengthened flight deck fitted for jets, new arresting gear and hydraulic catapults (H-6 replaced by H-8), new aircraft fueling arrangements, and all deck-level 5 inch guns removed. The gun armament was reduced to 8 single 5/38 DP and 12 to 14 dual 3/50 AA; the gun battery was gradually reduced over time. The rebuild did not include an angled flight deck. Displacement was 40,600 tons, with hull bulging from 93' to 101'.
SCB 27C: This program replaced the SCB 27A, and went one slightly further. Most details were the same as SCB 27A, but the ships carried C-11 steam catapults rather than hydraulic, and had only 4 5/38 guns. The change to steam catapults was a major operational improvement, and allowed the ships to operate much larger and heavier aircraft with stronger arresting gear, more flight-deck strengthening, and aft elevator moved to starboard deck-edge. Displacement was 43,600 tons, with hull bulging to 103'.
SCB 125: This program was applied to ships already modernized under the SCB 27A/27C programs. The principal changes under SCB 125 was the addition of an angled flight deck to replace the old axial deck arrangement, lengthening the forward elevator, and enclosing the bow. Other features of the ship, including the hydraulic/steam catapult separation between SCB 27A and SCB 27C, were not changed. In some cases this modernization was performed at the same time as an SCB 27A/27C conversion, leading to confusion between the two programs. The prototype conversion for this program was applied to an otherwise unmodified ship (CVS-36), yielding an odd ship with all her WWII features intact, but with an angled deck.
SCB125A: (CVA-34) was the 27C & 125 with metal over the wood flight deck aft and the strongest arresting gear fitted to any Essex carrier.
SCB 144: This program was applied to the ships modified with SCB 27A and 125, but not 27C. This was part of the Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization (FRAM) II , and incorporated an SQS-23 bow-mounted sonar dome, relocation of the side bow anchors to a single one on the extreme forward stem, and equipment changes in the Combat Information Center. [early 1960s](CVS-9, 10, 12, 15, 18, 20, 33).
Posts: 366
By: harryRIEDL - 17th November 2006 at 21:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
has the IN ever used the troop carrying the ablity on
hermes as they didn't refit it back and still have the commando carrier converstion.
is hermes beam to small to take migs?
do the IN have the oldest carrier in commison anywer.
Posts: 1,732
By: Victor - 17th November 2006 at 22:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
On the Vikad, where are the a/c elevators? I see two or three ord elevators but cant seem to find the a/c ones.
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 20th November 2006 at 09:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Amidships even with the island, and starboard aft of the island... they are smaller than the aircraft elevators on other carriers.
The first drawing shows the original elevator positions [top view is the original layout with bow missiles, and the lower ones are early modification plans], while the second one is supposed to show the new elevator positions.
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 21st November 2006 at 07:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In post #98 [pg 4], Obi Wan Russell wrote:
"I think you are referring to the post CVA-01 cancellation offer by the US Government in 1966 of THREE Essex class CVs to the RN in order to keep it's main ally in the carrier club. The actual ships have not been named, although most writers assumed they would be three of the six SCB-27C/ SCB-125 modernisations (ie two steam catapults, angled deck, hurricane bow etc) but now it seems they may have been offering unmodernised vessel held in reserve which could be modernised to British standards as a 'blank slate' (British catapults, arrestor gear, radars etc)."
There were 4 basically unmodified Essex class carriers available in 1966 (plus 3 with relatively minor modifications):
CVS-13 Franklin – decom 17/2/47; stricken 1/10/64 (sold for scrap 27/7/66 [AVT-8 1959])
CVS-17 Bunker Hill – decom 9/1/47; stkn 1/11/66 (test ship > Nov 1972; Scrapped 1973[AVT-9 1959])
{both of these were being held for "ultimate modernization" after having been repaired from severe battle damage in WW2}
CVS-32 Leyte – decom 15/5/59; stkn 1/12/69 (sold for scrap _/_/70 [AVT-10 1959])
CVS-47 Philippine Sea – decom 28/12/58; stkn 1/12/69 (sold for scrap _/3/71 [AVT-11 1959])
CVS-36 Antietam – decom 8/5/63; stkn 1/5/73 (sold for scrap 28/2/74 [CVT-36 1957])
{had been the test ship for USN angle deck experiments, and had only a small angle extension (without a supporting sponson), and no other significant improvements)}
CVS-39 Lake Champlain – decom 2/5/66; stkn 1/12/69 (sold for scrap 28/4/72)
CVS-40 Tarawa – decom 13/5/60; stkn 1/6/67 (sold for scrap 3/10/68 [AVT-12 1961])
{these had the basic SCB-27A upgrade, but were not fitted with an angle deck}
Bunker Hill, Leyte, and Phillippine Sea seem to be the most likely, as they were the ones with the least usage... Franklin was likely already well stripped of useful equipment for the ships still in active service.
"Ultimate" Reconstruction: This was a never-realized program to upgrade Essex class ships to a final, completely modern configuration. The SCB-27A/27C programs were seen as a temporary measure pending development of an "ultimate" configuration for the class. Ships of this configuration would have operated with the "supercarrier" United States in large nuclear-strike groups. The design would have been completely flush-decked, with no island at all.
With the death of United States and the development of the angled deck, the "ultimate" plan was reconfigured but probably stayed alive. It is unclear when it was realized that the "ultimate" modernization of Essex class ships should be dropped in favor of SCB 125 and new construction.
Two ships were excluded from other modernization programs to make them available for the "ultimate" conversion -- Bunker Hill and Franklin. These ships had been heavily damaged near the end of the war, fully repaired, and laid up in excellent condition. Ultimately they went to the breakers unmodified.
SCB 27A: First major upgrade program applied to Essex class. This was a general, all-around upgrade, including a completely rebuilt and reconfigured island, strengthened flight deck fitted for jets, new arresting gear and hydraulic catapults (H-6 replaced by H-8), new aircraft fueling arrangements, and all deck-level 5 inch guns removed. The gun armament was reduced to 8 single 5/38 DP and 12 to 14 dual 3/50 AA; the gun battery was gradually reduced over time. The rebuild did not include an angled flight deck. Displacement was 40,600 tons, with hull bulging from 93' to 101'.
SCB 27C: This program replaced the SCB 27A, and went one slightly further. Most details were the same as SCB 27A, but the ships carried C-11 steam catapults rather than hydraulic, and had only 4 5/38 guns. The change to steam catapults was a major operational improvement, and allowed the ships to operate much larger and heavier aircraft with stronger arresting gear, more flight-deck strengthening, and aft elevator moved to starboard deck-edge. Displacement was 43,600 tons, with hull bulging to 103'.
SCB 125: This program was applied to ships already modernized under the SCB 27A/27C programs. The principal changes under SCB 125 was the addition of an angled flight deck to replace the old axial deck arrangement, lengthening the forward elevator, and enclosing the bow. Other features of the ship, including the hydraulic/steam catapult separation between SCB 27A and SCB 27C, were not changed. In some cases this modernization was performed at the same time as an SCB 27A/27C conversion, leading to confusion between the two programs. The prototype conversion for this program was applied to an otherwise unmodified ship (CVS-36), yielding an odd ship with all her WWII features intact, but with an angled deck.
SCB125A: (CVA-34) was the 27C & 125 with metal over the wood flight deck aft and the strongest arresting gear fitted to any Essex carrier.
SCB 144: This program was applied to the ships modified with SCB 27A and 125, but not 27C. This was part of the Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization (FRAM) II , and incorporated an SQS-23 bow-mounted sonar dome, relocation of the side bow anchors to a single one on the extreme forward stem, and equipment changes in the Combat Information Center. [early 1960s](CVS-9, 10, 12, 15, 18, 20, 33).