Article dated 2012-06-26, with undated photos of PLA Black Hawks, although the text mentions they were delivering flood victims on May 18.
Article is an interview with PLA, Cheng Du military district, 3rd Group, CO, who's flown them for 25 years, and claims his brigade has about 10 active Black Hawks.
By: thinkplum
- 26th January 2013 at 16:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
salute to the good people, the PLA soldiers and in this particular thread, the manufacturer and designers of the S-70C-2 helicopters served in the 512 Sichuan earthquake. S-70C-2 is a very reliable helicopter and always the first choice in executing high altitude rescue and disaster relief missions in China.
Hope the US government will one day lift the embargo on S-70s and its successors.:p
By: hallo84
- 26th January 2013 at 20:52Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
salute to the good people, the PLA soldiers and in this particular thread, the manufacturer and designers of the S-70C-2 helicopters served in the 512 Sichuan earthquake. S-70C-2 is a very reliable helicopter and always the first choice in executing high altitude rescue and disaster relief missions in China.
Hope the US government will one day lift the embargo on S-70s and its successors.:p
Wow zombie post came back to life...
Btw PLA has a lot of different options now.
They can opt to reverse engineer the S92 they have with Chinese maritime search and rescue or choose to adopt more AS332L1 or AS532 SUPER PUMAs currently in service with PLA.
The new Z-15/EC175 is another option PLA can use to replace the aging Bloack Hawks.
By: thinkplum
- 27th January 2013 at 13:12Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wow zombie post came back to life...
Btw PLA has a lot of different options now.
They can opt to reverse engineer the S92 they have with Chinese maritime search and rescue or choose to adopt more AS332L1 or AS532 SUPER PUMAs currently in service with PLA.
The new Z-15/EC175 is another option PLA can use to replace the aging Bloack Hawks.
to be honest, Z-15 is produced under a sino-eu joint venture, the Chinese partner is responsible to produce the body, all engines and electronics are fitted in Europe, and it's smaller than Mi-17 & S-70c-2 in terms of power and loading capacity. It's mainly designed for VIP or personnel transportation. it's designed based on civil aviation standards and less adaptable for military purposes.
Chinese Z8( Super Puma) is about the same size of the Mi-171, and a high altitude version was immediately developed after the Sichuan earthquake. But i dont think many Z8s have been deployed in Chengdu Military District(where we need high altitude helicopters the most) yet. i bet the testing & evaluation process is not over.
Reverse engineering the S92 is simply not an option. Actually after the Sichuan earthquake, the US government allowed Sikorsky to supply S-70C-2 parts to its Chinese client. In fact, IIRC, Sikorsky used photos of one PLA S-70C-2 executing disaster relief missions as a publicity commercial on magazines, i've been looking for that pic for a long time but cant find it anymore. Under the table, the Chinese government seems to hold good relations with American arms producers, GE, Boeing, Sikorsky...Money and market just beat ideology there.
By: hallo84
- 27th January 2013 at 23:13Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
to be honest, Z-15 is produced under a sino-eu joint venture, the Chinese partner is responsible to produce the body, all engines and electronics are fitted in Europe, and it's smaller than Mi-17 & S-70c-2 in terms of power and loading capacity. It's mainly designed for VIP or personnel transportation. it's designed based on civil aviation standards and less adaptable for military purposes.
Chinese Z8( Super Puma) is about the same size of the Mi-171, and a high altitude version was immediately developed after the Sichuan earthquake. But i dont think many Z8s have been deployed in Chengdu Military District(where we need high altitude helicopters the most) yet. i bet the testing & evaluation process is not over.
Reverse engineering the S92 is simply not an option. Actually after the Sichuan earthquake, the US government allowed Sikorsky to supply S-70C-2 parts to its Chinese client. In fact, IIRC, Sikorsky used photos of one PLA S-70C-2 executing disaster relief missions as a publicity commercial on magazines, i've been looking for that pic for a long time but cant find it anymore. Under the table, the Chinese government seems to hold good relations with American arms producers, GE, Boeing, Sikorsky...Money and market just beat ideology there.
Z-15 is a military designation so you can bet its not just for civilian use. AC352 is what its called officially.
BTW the military version is already confirmed. Turbomeca is working with the chinese to develop a new version of the Ardiden engine.
Re: Z-15/EC175 "6-ton" Development (New CMH)
Heli-Expo 2010: Turbomeca working on alternative engine for Chinese EC175
Turbomeca is working with Chinese manufacturer AVIC on an alternative engine for the EC175/Z-15 helicopter.
Speaking on the eve of Heli-Expo in Houston, CEO Pierre Fabre told reporters that the company was working with the Chinese on a development of its Ardiden engine, called the WZ-16. The WZ-16 will be a derivative of the Ardiden 3 which is also going to be fitted to the Kamov Ka-62.
The Ardiden engine is already flying in the HAL Dhruv, Advanced Light Helicopter, but the uprated versions, will be capable of producing 1,800-2,000 shp, making them ideal for six-eight tonne helicopters.
It follows the first flight ceremony of the EC175 in Marseille back in December in which Eurocopter CEO Lutz Bertling revealed that the Chinese were looking to an alternative powerplant to that being used in the EC175, the Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C. Fabre said he was confident of achieving a 10-15 % improvement in fuel burn on the Canadian engine.
The company revealed engine sales had dipped by 15 % selling 300 fewer engines in 2009 compared to 2008. The company was spending 11 % of its turnover on research and development and working on reducing the rate of in-flight shut-downs with the aim by 40 % by 2016.
Fabre said he was looking to Asia for increased sales in the next 30 years, pointing that China only has around 600 helicopters but could see equal the 6000 or so helicopters operating in the United States in the next three decades. In 2009 60 of engines were to replace old engines, with 40 % new sales, Fabre believes that by 2039, 60 % of sales would be for new engines.
By Tony Osborne - Rotorhub.com Editorial Team
Also PLA already operates AS532s and purchasing more would be more logical than servicing decades old S-70
By: wilhelm
- 28th January 2013 at 17:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Chinese Z8( Super Puma) is about the same size of the Mi-171, and a high altitude version was immediately developed after the Sichuan earthquake. But i dont think many Z8s have been deployed in Chengdu Military District(where we need high altitude helicopters the most) yet. i bet the testing & evaluation process is not over.
The Z-8 is actually the Super Frelon.
The Z-8 has been developed into the Avicopter AC313 for civil use.
I actually think this development, with suitable modifications, would make a really useful military helicopter.
By: Don Chan
- 21st April 2013 at 05:03Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Seriously, the Ya An Earthquake in Si Chuan Province, PRC, on 20 April 2013 is another chance for military aviation fans to gawk at the PLA Black Hawk heloes that keep on going and going.
By: Andy Wright
- 23rd April 2013 at 23:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Saw footage of Blackhawks during the earthquake rescue coverage. Did a double-take but put it down to archival news footage (which didn't really make sense to use as I thought at the same time). Learn something new every day.
New
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan
- 24th April 2013 at 04:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Post-quake rescue operations expose China's military aircraft weaknesses Military enthusiasts are disappointed China relies on US and Russian aircraft in post-earthquake operations rather than home-made hardware
Wednesday, 24 April, 2013, 4:46am
Minnie Chan
The widespread use of US- and Russian-made helicopters during rescue missions in the quake zone in Sichuan's Yaan city has again exposed weaknesses in China's home-made rescue aircraft.
Military analysts said domestic-made rescue helicopters lack the ability to carry heavy loads and are less capable at handling extreme weather conditions. Some chalk the disparity up to Beijing's focus on the development of advanced fighter jets and other general-purpose planes.
At this point, quake victims in the worst-hit Lushan county may find it a familiar sight to see US-made Sikorsky Black Hawks, Russian Mi-17 series helicopters and Moscow's Ilyushin Il-76TD cargo planes flying overhead after Saturday's magnitude 7 quake.
Mainland military enthusiasts said they were disappointed when China Central Television reported that the first two helicopters sent to Lushan were a Black Hawk and Mi-17. Some asked when China would make its own "Black Hawk", and why the most-advanced home-made armed helicopter, the WZ-10, and the military's Y-20 cargo plane weren't used in rescue work.
"China doesn't yet have enough medium-lift helicopters or cargo planes, as our research and development efforts on those two types of aircraft are still in progress," said Xu Guangyu , a former general and senior researcher at the Beijing-based China Arms Control and Disarmament Association.
He said the Chinese air force sent home-made WZ-9 and WZ-8 armed helicopters to assist in the rescue operations, but neither is able to play an important role because of their limited capacity and capabilities.
"The US' [Black Hawk] helicopters were sent to the front line to handle immediate rescue efforts because of their heavy-load capacity, and suitability for highlands and extreme weather conditions," Xu said.
The People's Liberation Army Air Force's Chengdu Military Command said they sent at least 10 helicopters to disaster areas on Saturday, and several dozen were on standby.
All of them were either Black Hawks or Mi-17 aircraft, the Chengdu -based West China City Daily quoted a commander as saying.
"The service life of the Black Hawks is almost up, as all of them have flown nearly 30 years," said Antony Wong Dong of the Macau-based International Military Association.
"The widespread use of US and Russian helicopters in quake rescue and relief efforts indicates that Beijing has made fighter jets and other weapons its priorities in its military modernisation," Wong said.
China spent about US$150 million to buy 24 medium-lift utility S-70C Black Hawk helicopters and related parts from the US-based Sikorsky Aircraft Corp in 1984, according to a report by the China Youth Daily that said China still has 20 of the aircraft.
"We know our weaknesses in aircraft technology, especially with multi-role armed helicopters, but so far we can focus only on utility helicopters, which can be used in coastal, eastern and southern areas," Xu said.
By: Devils Advocate
- 24th April 2013 at 04:29Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And slowman has said himself in the North Korean thread that South Korea can't take on the North without the US's help...
New
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan
- 24th April 2013 at 05:52Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And slowman has said himself in the North Korean thread that South Korea can't take on the North without the US's help...
Actually a lot of intelligence services are monitoring the PLA deployment in Sichuan right now, to see if the PLA has made any progress in rapid troop deployment since 2008. Fortunately for the world they haven't.
By: Devils Advocate
- 24th April 2013 at 06:35Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Actually a lot of intelligence services are monitoring the PLA deployment in Sichuan right now, to see if the PLA has made any progress in rapid troop deployment since 2008. Fortunately for the world they haven't.
The same can be said for the mighty South Koreans with all their new toys that need American help to literally make everything. You even admit you still need the US's help to take on the pitiful North Korean military. A lot of bark and no bite.
By: thinkplum
- 24th April 2013 at 06:40Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Actually a lot of intelligence services are monitoring the PLA deployment in Sichuan right now, to see if the PLA has made any progress in rapid troop deployment since 2008. Fortunately for the world they haven't.
go google earth the terrains of the area, you will know why.
and how long did it take national guard to respond to Katrina, a decade?.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 16th August 2010 at 13:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2010-08/16/content_14025234.htm
to
http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2010-08/16/content_14025234_2.htm
Chicom Black Hawks tasked with SAR. Photos taken on or before 2010/08/16, but the serial number on the tail boom is greyed out. 8(
http://club.mil.news.sina.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=201655###
Undated photo of three HKGFS Black Hawks.
http://www.chnmilitary.com/html/2010-06/7545.html
http://military.china.com/zh_cn/history4/62/20100630/16003802.html
Article dated 2010/06/30, about the Chicom Black Hawk that crashed on 1987/10/08.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 16th November 2011 at 03:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/slide_8_199_12042.html
Photos dated 2011/11/14, of PLA Black Hawk heloes of Cheng Du military district.
Difficult to read S/Ns though.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 26th June 2012 at 08:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://big5.takung.cn/military/content/2012-06/26/content_558397.htm
Article dated 2012-06-26, with undated photos of PLA Black Hawks, although the text mentions they were delivering flood victims on May 18.
Article is an interview with PLA, Cheng Du military district, 3rd Group, CO, who's flown them for 25 years, and claims his brigade has about 10 active Black Hawks.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 26th January 2013 at 14:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.henan100.com/news/2013/230454.shtml
Chinese article dated 2013-01-21.
I know this is lag, but just noticed the WZ-19 was escorted by a white Chinese Black Hawk.
Posts: 136
By: thinkplum - 26th January 2013 at 16:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
salute to the good people, the PLA soldiers and in this particular thread, the manufacturer and designers of the S-70C-2 helicopters served in the 512 Sichuan earthquake. S-70C-2 is a very reliable helicopter and always the first choice in executing high altitude rescue and disaster relief missions in China.
Hope the US government will one day lift the embargo on S-70s and its successors.:p
Posts: 832
By: hallo84 - 26th January 2013 at 20:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wow zombie post came back to life...
Btw PLA has a lot of different options now.
They can opt to reverse engineer the S92 they have with Chinese maritime search and rescue or choose to adopt more AS332L1 or AS532 SUPER PUMAs currently in service with PLA.
The new Z-15/EC175 is another option PLA can use to replace the aging Bloack Hawks.
Posts: 136
By: thinkplum - 27th January 2013 at 13:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
to be honest, Z-15 is produced under a sino-eu joint venture, the Chinese partner is responsible to produce the body, all engines and electronics are fitted in Europe, and it's smaller than Mi-17 & S-70c-2 in terms of power and loading capacity. It's mainly designed for VIP or personnel transportation. it's designed based on civil aviation standards and less adaptable for military purposes.
Chinese Z8( Super Puma) is about the same size of the Mi-171, and a high altitude version was immediately developed after the Sichuan earthquake. But i dont think many Z8s have been deployed in Chengdu Military District(where we need high altitude helicopters the most) yet. i bet the testing & evaluation process is not over.
Reverse engineering the S92 is simply not an option. Actually after the Sichuan earthquake, the US government allowed Sikorsky to supply S-70C-2 parts to its Chinese client. In fact, IIRC, Sikorsky used photos of one PLA S-70C-2 executing disaster relief missions as a publicity commercial on magazines, i've been looking for that pic for a long time but cant find it anymore. Under the table, the Chinese government seems to hold good relations with American arms producers, GE, Boeing, Sikorsky...Money and market just beat ideology there.
Posts: 832
By: hallo84 - 27th January 2013 at 23:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Z-15 is a military designation so you can bet its not just for civilian use. AC352 is what its called officially.
BTW the military version is already confirmed. Turbomeca is working with the chinese to develop a new version of the Ardiden engine.
Re: Z-15/EC175 "6-ton" Development (New CMH)
Heli-Expo 2010: Turbomeca working on alternative engine for Chinese EC175
February 20, 2010
http://www.shephard.co.uk/news/rotorhub-com/heli-expo-2010-turbomeca-working-on-alternative-engine-for-chinese-ec175/5546/
Turbomeca is working with Chinese manufacturer AVIC on an alternative engine for the EC175/Z-15 helicopter.
Speaking on the eve of Heli-Expo in Houston, CEO Pierre Fabre told reporters that the company was working with the Chinese on a development of its Ardiden engine, called the WZ-16. The WZ-16 will be a derivative of the Ardiden 3 which is also going to be fitted to the Kamov Ka-62.
The Ardiden engine is already flying in the HAL Dhruv, Advanced Light Helicopter, but the uprated versions, will be capable of producing 1,800-2,000 shp, making them ideal for six-eight tonne helicopters.
It follows the first flight ceremony of the EC175 in Marseille back in December in which Eurocopter CEO Lutz Bertling revealed that the Chinese were looking to an alternative powerplant to that being used in the EC175, the Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C. Fabre said he was confident of achieving a 10-15 % improvement in fuel burn on the Canadian engine.
The company revealed engine sales had dipped by 15 % selling 300 fewer engines in 2009 compared to 2008. The company was spending 11 % of its turnover on research and development and working on reducing the rate of in-flight shut-downs with the aim by 40 % by 2016.
Fabre said he was looking to Asia for increased sales in the next 30 years, pointing that China only has around 600 helicopters but could see equal the 6000 or so helicopters operating in the United States in the next three decades. In 2009 60 of engines were to replace old engines, with 40 % new sales, Fabre believes that by 2039, 60 % of sales would be for new engines.
By Tony Osborne - Rotorhub.com Editorial Team
Also PLA already operates AS532s and purchasing more would be more logical than servicing decades old S-70
Posts: 1,620
By: wilhelm - 28th January 2013 at 17:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Z-8 is actually the Super Frelon.
The Z-8 has been developed into the Avicopter AC313 for civil use.
I actually think this development, with suitable modifications, would make a really useful military helicopter.
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 21st April 2013 at 05:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Seriously, the Ya An Earthquake in Si Chuan Province, PRC, on 20 April 2013 is another chance for military aviation fans to gawk at the PLA Black Hawk heloes that keep on going and going.
http://big5.qianzhan.com/indynews/detail/256/130420-5e736a46.html
For example, here's a screen cap of the white Black Hawk LH92200.
Posts: 113
By: plumberunion - 21st April 2013 at 18:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
When did China buy the Cougar?
Posts: 3,328
By: Don Chan - 23rd April 2013 at 04:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/slide_8_33320_22859.html#p=6
Photos dated on or before 22 April 2013.
PLA Black Hawks at Ya An Earthquake, Si Chuan Province.
Posts: 151
By: Andy Wright - 23rd April 2013 at 23:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Saw footage of Blackhawks during the earthquake rescue coverage. Did a double-take but put it down to archival news footage (which didn't really make sense to use as I thought at the same time). Learn something new every day.
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan - 24th April 2013 at 04:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1221758/post-quake-rescue-operations-expose-chinas-military-aircraft-weaknesses
Posts: 327
By: Devils Advocate - 24th April 2013 at 04:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And slowman has said himself in the North Korean thread that South Korea can't take on the North without the US's help...
Posts: 578
By: SlowMan - 24th April 2013 at 05:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Actually a lot of intelligence services are monitoring the PLA deployment in Sichuan right now, to see if the PLA has made any progress in rapid troop deployment since 2008. Fortunately for the world they haven't.
Posts: 327
By: Devils Advocate - 24th April 2013 at 06:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The same can be said for the mighty South Koreans with all their new toys that need American help to literally make everything. You even admit you still need the US's help to take on the pitiful North Korean military. A lot of bark and no bite.
Posts: 136
By: thinkplum - 24th April 2013 at 06:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
go google earth the terrains of the area, you will know why.
and how long did it take national guard to respond to Katrina, a decade?.
Posts: 327
By: Devils Advocate - 24th April 2013 at 06:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yeah and Obama was said to be furious when China landed a rescue and relief team in Haiti after the earthquake before any American team arrived.
Posts: 1,059
By: RpR - 24th April 2013 at 07:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The National Guard is controlled by the Governor of Louisiana, not Washington.Federal systems were supposed to be the last resort, not first responders.
Failure of response was local, not Federal.