By: Peter Garner
- 26th January 2009 at 08:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Have you got dwgs to work to? The Caps of the Spars (Front and Rear) look rather thicker than they need to be. I would have thought that they should be parallel to the OML at least?
The spars in the wing-section were built before we had these plans. I have attached a picture of a spar we built according the plans. The ply walls still need to be attached. Once this is done the top and bottom of the spar will be angled to follow the lines of the airfoil-section. This spar was built for load testing.
By: TempestV
- 26th January 2009 at 11:55Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hello Peter
What a fascinating project you are doing! Thanks for sharing progress with us all on this forum. It is great to see an extinct type being recreated again.
By: Creaking Door
- 26th January 2009 at 23:03Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don’t suppose you could post a photo of a piston could you?
Sure! :)
Nice looking piston.....you were right about its condition too!
The reason I asked is that I’ve got a piston myself that I’ve been trying to identify for a while. It is 160mm bore, German (Kolbenschmidt), old, and intriguingly, has ‘VI’ cast under the crown...
...although it doesn’t look much like your pistons it shares some design features. I had wondered if it could be a BMW VI piston?
Anyway thanks for the photos and good luck with your project.
Attachments
New
Posts: 2,101
By: old shape
- 27th January 2009 at 00:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The spars in the wing-section were built before we had these plans. I have attached a picture of a spar we built according the plans. The ply walls still need to be attached. Once this is done the top and bottom of the spar will be angled to follow the lines of the airfoil-section. This spar was built for load testing.
Peter
Aah, no. What I am looking at is on the plan sketch. Once the Ply walls, (Web) of the spar is fitted.... I doubt if you could do as I was expecting.
The Spar Caps are not a parallel section, the attachment face is as per aerofoil (Which you say will be dressed to a perfect fit after Spar assembly), the inner face of the caps - I was expecting to be - parallel to the aerofoil. But the plans have drawn it just like you made the section. So I assume the fasteners are not through to a nut / anchor nut?
How are you attaching the Spar web to the vertical faces of the Caps?
I can't tell from the plans, is each Spar a Box section...i.e a plywood web at front of the caps and another at the rear of the caps?
By: Peter Garner
- 27th January 2009 at 13:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aah, no. What I am looking at is on the plan sketch. Once the Ply walls, (Web) of the spar is fitted.... I doubt if you could do as I was expecting.
Ummm... I don't know what you were expecting!
The Spar Caps are not a parallel section, the attachment face is as per aerofoil (Which you say will be dressed to a perfect fit after Spar assembly), the inner face of the caps - I was expecting to be - parallel to the aerofoil. But the plans have drawn it just like you made the section. So I assume the fasteners are not through to a nut / anchor nut??
Good heavens, no, thar would weaken the whole structure.
How are you attaching the Spar web to the vertical faces of the Caps?
They'll be glued.
I can't tell from the plans, is each Spar a Box section...i.e a plywood web at front of the caps and another at the rear of the caps?
Actually it is perfectly clear from the plans that the plywood web is on both-sides. Even the thickness of the plywood at each section is given. They are box-spars throughout.
By: Arm Waver
- 27th January 2009 at 16:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A lovely piece of work so far. Many thanks for sharing the progress thus far.
New
Posts: 2,101
By: old shape
- 27th January 2009 at 23:26Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Actually it is perfectly clear from the plans that the plywood web is on both-sides. Even the thickness of the plywood at each section is given. They are box-spars throughout.
Peter
Yes, it is now. I couldn't see the dimensioned Webs last night. I'm using the big screen tonight.
As for the Caps not being parallel to the Aerofoil line, I was assuming through fasteners and mentally calculating the RF value of the Cap thickness, which would probably be greater than 1, therefore heavier than it needs to be. But it needs the thickness to get a good land for the rear Ply web.
By: Peter Garner
- 28th January 2009 at 13:22Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
...although it doesn’t look much like your pistons it shares some design features. I had wondered if it could be a BMW VI piston?
Your piston appears to indeed be a BMW VI piston. My engine is a BMW VI series 6; the piston you have apparently comes from a BMW VI series 9, a very late version of this type of engine. Thanks to Hilmar Lang for the scan.
By: one0nine
- 28th January 2009 at 13:56Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It's utterly fantastic to hear there is an He 51 being built... it was a beautiful aircraft, and this will be an absolute jaw-dropper when done, I am certain of that.
If I had the time, space, and money (HA!), I would love to build an Ar 68E...
Best of luck, Peter, and thank you for keeping us all updated on this wonderful project!
By: Peter Garner
- 3rd February 2009 at 06:54Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is this a "fastener free" design then?
Yep! all wooden joints are glued. We use Aerodux 185 which is tricky to use as it requires an enormous pressure over a longer period of time whilst the glue is setting. However, when used correctly one achieves rock-solid joints.
The glued joint is even stronger than the wood itself.
In the second picture you can see part of the jig for the fuselage top, which we are working on now.
By: Cees Broere
- 5th February 2009 at 19:08Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Peter,
What about the aircraft's systems such as fuel, electrical, hydraulic (if present) do you have information about those as well or will you use contempary aircraft as a template?
Cheers
Cees
New
Posts: 2,101
By: old shape
- 5th February 2009 at 19:18Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yep! all wooden joints are glued. We use Aerodux 185 which is tricky to use as it requires an enormous pressure over a longer period of time whilst the glue is setting. However, when used correctly one achieves rock-solid joints.
The glued joint is even stronger than the wood itself.
In the second picture you can see part of the jig for the fuselage top, which we are working on now.
Peter
Aah, yes. I know Aerodux 185. The Yachties round these parts use it on their hulls. Most modern wood glues are stronger than the wood...but the Aerodux range is top drawer.
How are you applying pressure, clamps with strips or these plus a vacuum bag?
By: Peter Garner
- 7th February 2009 at 10:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
How are you applying pressure, clamps with strips or these plus a vacuum bag?
Do you think this might do? Here a compression rib is under construction, sandwiched between two 2-inch planks and pressed with at least 24 vice-clamps. There is hardly enough room to tighten the clamps.
Will your example be the only one flying?
Yes, but we are planning to make the plans available once ours is done.
By: StevSmar
- 7th February 2009 at 18:12Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Looks like you need to modify your "F" clamps by putting a 1/4" hex screw on the end of the handle so you can tighten and un-tighten them using a cordless drill? (With the clutch tension appropriately set of course)
Not much room to tighten the handles without skinning your knuckles!;)
By: Peter Garner
- 11th February 2009 at 19:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Peter,
What about the aircraft's systems such as fuel, electrical, hydraulic (if present) do you have information about those as well or will you use contempary aircraft as a template?
Cheers
Cees
Cees,
we have all the information we need to produce a 100% accurate replica. Providing we get (or build) some vital pieces to make the replica accurate such as oil- and fueltanks, rudder-pedals, radiators etc. Would it make sence to recreate the rudder-pedals, when modern substitutes are available for a fraction of the costs it would take to produce an accurate copy and that can do the job just as well? Personally I would love to rebuild such details as accurate as possible but it has to remain feasable. I don't see much point in starting on these items now, you never know what might turn up in Spain or elsewhere within the next few years. Maybe we could use a radiator from an He 111 which after a little alteration should fit.
Posts: 403
By: Peter Garner - 26th January 2009 at 08:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The spars in the wing-section were built before we had these plans. I have attached a picture of a spar we built according the plans. The ply walls still need to be attached. Once this is done the top and bottom of the spar will be angled to follow the lines of the airfoil-section. This spar was built for load testing.
Peter
Posts: 18,358
By: DazDaMan - 26th January 2009 at 11:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It's been done, but as far as I can tell, the aircraft in question (built some years ago in the USA) has yet to take flight for one reason or another.
Posts: 1,494
By: TempestV - 26th January 2009 at 11:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hello Peter
What a fascinating project you are doing! Thanks for sharing progress with us all on this forum. It is great to see an extinct type being recreated again.
Best of luck.
Posts: 9,739
By: Creaking Door - 26th January 2009 at 23:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nice looking piston.....you were right about its condition too!
The reason I asked is that I’ve got a piston myself that I’ve been trying to identify for a while. It is 160mm bore, German (Kolbenschmidt), old, and intriguingly, has ‘VI’ cast under the crown...
...although it doesn’t look much like your pistons it shares some design features. I had wondered if it could be a BMW VI piston?
Anyway thanks for the photos and good luck with your project.
Posts: 2,101
By: old shape - 27th January 2009 at 00:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aah, no. What I am looking at is on the plan sketch. Once the Ply walls, (Web) of the spar is fitted.... I doubt if you could do as I was expecting.
The Spar Caps are not a parallel section, the attachment face is as per aerofoil (Which you say will be dressed to a perfect fit after Spar assembly), the inner face of the caps - I was expecting to be - parallel to the aerofoil. But the plans have drawn it just like you made the section. So I assume the fasteners are not through to a nut / anchor nut?
How are you attaching the Spar web to the vertical faces of the Caps?
I can't tell from the plans, is each Spar a Box section...i.e a plywood web at front of the caps and another at the rear of the caps?
Posts: 403
By: Peter Garner - 27th January 2009 at 13:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ummm... I don't know what you were expecting!
Good heavens, no, thar would weaken the whole structure.
They'll be glued.
Actually it is perfectly clear from the plans that the plywood web is on both-sides. Even the thickness of the plywood at each section is given. They are box-spars throughout.
Peter
Posts: 3,031
By: Arm Waver - 27th January 2009 at 16:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A lovely piece of work so far. Many thanks for sharing the progress thus far.
Posts: 2,101
By: old shape - 27th January 2009 at 23:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes, it is now. I couldn't see the dimensioned Webs last night. I'm using the big screen tonight.
As for the Caps not being parallel to the Aerofoil line, I was assuming through fasteners and mentally calculating the RF value of the Cap thickness, which would probably be greater than 1, therefore heavier than it needs to be. But it needs the thickness to get a good land for the rear Ply web.
Is this a "fastener free" design then?
Posts: 2,146
By: STORMBIRD262 - 28th January 2009 at 09:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
WOW
G" day ;)
Like the rest, Thank you for sharing this with us all
A most interesting project.
Would there be any wreck's in Spain at all ???:confused:
Posts: 403
By: Peter Garner - 28th January 2009 at 13:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Your piston appears to indeed be a BMW VI piston. My engine is a BMW VI series 6; the piston you have apparently comes from a BMW VI series 9, a very late version of this type of engine. Thanks to Hilmar Lang for the scan.
Regards
Peter
Posts: 128
By: one0nine - 28th January 2009 at 13:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It's utterly fantastic to hear there is an He 51 being built... it was a beautiful aircraft, and this will be an absolute jaw-dropper when done, I am certain of that.
If I had the time, space, and money (HA!), I would love to build an Ar 68E...
Best of luck, Peter, and thank you for keeping us all updated on this wonderful project!
Cheers,
Lynn
Posts: 9,739
By: Creaking Door - 28th January 2009 at 23:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mystery solved! Thank you Peter Garner (and Hilmar Lang). :)
Once again, good luck with your project and keep the (engine ;)) updates coming.
Posts: 403
By: Peter Garner - 3rd February 2009 at 06:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yep! all wooden joints are glued. We use Aerodux 185 which is tricky to use as it requires an enormous pressure over a longer period of time whilst the glue is setting. However, when used correctly one achieves rock-solid joints.
The glued joint is even stronger than the wood itself.
In the second picture you can see part of the jig for the fuselage top, which we are working on now.
Peter
Posts: 178
By: battle_damaged - 3rd February 2009 at 15:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Peter,
a lickle present for you - not sure where taken, Darmstadt perhaps...
brgds
Alan
Posts: 403
By: Peter Garner - 4th February 2009 at 18:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Coo, thanks Alan, that's real cool! There are some nice pics on Ebay every now and then. This one is one of my favorites.
Peter
Posts: 1,586
By: Cees Broere - 5th February 2009 at 19:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Peter,
What about the aircraft's systems such as fuel, electrical, hydraulic (if present) do you have information about those as well or will you use contempary aircraft as a template?
Cheers
Cees
Posts: 2,101
By: old shape - 5th February 2009 at 19:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aah, yes. I know Aerodux 185. The Yachties round these parts use it on their hulls. Most modern wood glues are stronger than the wood...but the Aerodux range is top drawer.
How are you applying pressure, clamps with strips or these plus a vacuum bag?
Will your example be the only one flying?
Posts: 403
By: Peter Garner - 7th February 2009 at 10:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Do you think this might do? Here a compression rib is under construction, sandwiched between two 2-inch planks and pressed with at least 24 vice-clamps. There is hardly enough room to tighten the clamps.
Yes, but we are planning to make the plans available once ours is done.
Peter
Posts: 248
By: StevSmar - 7th February 2009 at 18:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Looks like you need to modify your "F" clamps by putting a 1/4" hex screw on the end of the handle so you can tighten and un-tighten them using a cordless drill? (With the clutch tension appropriately set of course)
Not much room to tighten the handles without skinning your knuckles!;)
Posts: 403
By: Peter Garner - 11th February 2009 at 19:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cees,
we have all the information we need to produce a 100% accurate replica. Providing we get (or build) some vital pieces to make the replica accurate such as oil- and fueltanks, rudder-pedals, radiators etc. Would it make sence to recreate the rudder-pedals, when modern substitutes are available for a fraction of the costs it would take to produce an accurate copy and that can do the job just as well? Personally I would love to rebuild such details as accurate as possible but it has to remain feasable. I don't see much point in starting on these items now, you never know what might turn up in Spain or elsewhere within the next few years. Maybe we could use a radiator from an He 111 which after a little alteration should fit.
Peter