By: sopwith.7f1
- 15th November 2015 at 11:20Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
New build Merlins are not a pipe dream, the number of available usable original parts is dwindling rapidly, and more newly manufactured items are made for them every year, at some point, nearly every part will be being produced for the more common marks as well as quite a few for the rarer ones. It won't all happen at once, but bit by bit as each new type of part is reproduced, the funds raised from the sale of these will probably be plowed back into making other parts. Cylinder heads now, cranks and crankcases next year, complete engines some time after that.
By the way if I recall correctly, aren't there some original crankshaft etc dies still around, I'm sure there is one in the Industrial museum in Sheffield ?.
By: Tom Kay
- 17th November 2015 at 16:20Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
"New build Merlins are not a pipe dream."
This is something I've wanted to see for ages, so I'm all for it. Truthfully though, I can't see it happening very soon, or even at all. And this is after seeing lots of new parts, including Retro's new cylinder heads. This sounds counter-intuitive, but there are thousands of parts in a Merlin (I've heard 11,000 parts, but can't verify).
Also, despite appearances, I think there is still a ton of inventory, if it could only be accessed a little more easily. Take 51 Factory in California for example. Their Merlin inventory is staggering. Here's a glimpse of some of their spare parts. http://51-factory.com/inventory.htm If you look at just one of the pictures, you'll see dozens of cylinder heads on a single shelf. All of this came from Paul Szendroi, former operator of Universal Airmotive in Chicago. Looking at 51 Factory's inventory pictures kinda reminds me of the last scene in the Indiana Jones movie, where the Ark of the Covenant is stored in some endless warehouse, with row-on-row of shelves.
This doesn't even include what Dwight Thorne claimed was enough parts to build 200 complete Merlins, and another collection of major parts to make 200 more without all the tiny seals and small parts. Mike Barrow, who used to work with Dwight Thorne (of Mystery Aire) mentioned that Dwight's widow is just sitting on this inventory, and won't sell it. I have no idea what her current status is, but that's the last info I have on the late Dwight's Merlin stock. This was 10+ years ago.
I have no idea what Mike Nixon's inventory is either, but they are still very active in Merlin restoration.
Despite buying a crankcase from Mike Barrow last year, I really don't know how much usable stock he owns. Or Jack Roush.
As I see it, it's a pretty tough sell to go into limited production to make all new Merlin engines. I'd heard the crankshaft dies exist, but I suspect that a machined billet crank would be much easier for low production numbers.
I would love to see new production happen. I just have my ongoing doubts, based on cost, demand, and existing inventory. Of course, it would be foolish to assume that we have seen our last new Merlin part, minor or major, as this is happening all around us.
By: Firebird
- 17th November 2015 at 20:45Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Richw
I wasn't aware of C & G making castings.
They offer all sorts of new castings such as Coventry-Climax race engine block castings and head castings etc., so if they aren't cast in-house, they certainly get them done somewhere......
By: MerlinPete
- 17th November 2015 at 21:25Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I know under American Experimental Category almost any modification is possible.
But here in Europe a Rolls Royce Engine needs a original Rolls Royce Cylinder head with Rolls Royce papers.
Don't forget data plate restorations are done as a repair, not a rebuild........
Not so Pim. We already use non-original items here in Europe, such as camshafts and aftermarket modified followers...and, of course, ultimately, Retro cylinder heads.
Also, a Merlin doesn`t require paperwork prior to rebuild, only after.
By: Pim Pouw
- 18th November 2015 at 19:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
We already use non-original items here in Europe, such as camshafts and aftermarket modified followers...and, of course, ultimately, Retro cylinder heads
Hello Pete,
I believe only Roush Aviation in the USA manufactures the mentioned parts under PMA FAA approval. These parts are reversed engineered and are not manufactured under license/permission of Rolls Royce.
American PMA FAA parts are accepted replacement in the USA by the FAA but are only accepted without approval of EASA if they are non-critical flight items. I don't think that Camshafts , Followers, Mayor engine castings are under this category.
If my memory serves me well, the Vickers Vimy replica original had Mercedes engines installed. When it flew to the USA, Mercedes started a lawsuit to prevent their engine being used as such over American soil. They re-engined it with American V-8's.
Same for Boeing replicas of the Peashooter for which the Boeing Company forbid to use their name.
I can already see the Rolls Royce lawyers thinking of an accident caused by an Rolls Royce Merlin engine failure which could be traced back to an aftermarket part.
Ofcourse I am not an expert and could be wrong, so if you know such a Merlin flying around in Europe I would be more then interested, so I could see under which provisions they got their approval.
Pim
Early Birds Foundation Netherlands
Mustang P-51D, 44-74923
Posts: 1,101
By: sopwith.7f1 - 15th November 2015 at 11:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
New build Merlins are not a pipe dream, the number of available usable original parts is dwindling rapidly, and more newly manufactured items are made for them every year, at some point, nearly every part will be being produced for the more common marks as well as quite a few for the rarer ones. It won't all happen at once, but bit by bit as each new type of part is reproduced, the funds raised from the sale of these will probably be plowed back into making other parts. Cylinder heads now, cranks and crankcases next year, complete engines some time after that.
By the way if I recall correctly, aren't there some original crankshaft etc dies still around, I'm sure there is one in the Industrial museum in Sheffield ?.
Bob T.
Posts: 146
By: Tom Kay - 17th November 2015 at 16:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
"New build Merlins are not a pipe dream."
This is something I've wanted to see for ages, so I'm all for it. Truthfully though, I can't see it happening very soon, or even at all. And this is after seeing lots of new parts, including Retro's new cylinder heads. This sounds counter-intuitive, but there are thousands of parts in a Merlin (I've heard 11,000 parts, but can't verify).
Also, despite appearances, I think there is still a ton of inventory, if it could only be accessed a little more easily. Take 51 Factory in California for example. Their Merlin inventory is staggering. Here's a glimpse of some of their spare parts. http://51-factory.com/inventory.htm If you look at just one of the pictures, you'll see dozens of cylinder heads on a single shelf. All of this came from Paul Szendroi, former operator of Universal Airmotive in Chicago. Looking at 51 Factory's inventory pictures kinda reminds me of the last scene in the Indiana Jones movie, where the Ark of the Covenant is stored in some endless warehouse, with row-on-row of shelves.
This doesn't even include what Dwight Thorne claimed was enough parts to build 200 complete Merlins, and another collection of major parts to make 200 more without all the tiny seals and small parts. Mike Barrow, who used to work with Dwight Thorne (of Mystery Aire) mentioned that Dwight's widow is just sitting on this inventory, and won't sell it. I have no idea what her current status is, but that's the last info I have on the late Dwight's Merlin stock. This was 10+ years ago.
I have no idea what Mike Nixon's inventory is either, but they are still very active in Merlin restoration.
Despite buying a crankcase from Mike Barrow last year, I really don't know how much usable stock he owns. Or Jack Roush.
As I see it, it's a pretty tough sell to go into limited production to make all new Merlin engines. I'd heard the crankshaft dies exist, but I suspect that a machined billet crank would be much easier for low production numbers.
I would love to see new production happen. I just have my ongoing doubts, based on cost, demand, and existing inventory. Of course, it would be foolish to assume that we have seen our last new Merlin part, minor or major, as this is happening all around us.
Cheers, Tom.
Posts: 2,108
By: Firebird - 17th November 2015 at 20:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They offer all sorts of new castings such as Coventry-Climax race engine block castings and head castings etc., so if they aren't cast in-house, they certainly get them done somewhere......
And yes, I don't think they are CAA certified.
Posts: 35
By: Pim Pouw - 17th November 2015 at 21:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I know under American Experimental Category almost any modification is possible.
But here in Europe a Rolls Royce Engine needs a original Rolls Royce Cylinder head with Rolls Royce papers.
Don't forget data plate restorations are done as a repair, not a rebuild........
Posts: 1,270
By: MerlinPete - 17th November 2015 at 21:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not so Pim. We already use non-original items here in Europe, such as camshafts and aftermarket modified followers...and, of course, ultimately, Retro cylinder heads.
Also, a Merlin doesn`t require paperwork prior to rebuild, only after.
Pete
Posts: 35
By: Pim Pouw - 18th November 2015 at 19:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hello Pete,
I believe only Roush Aviation in the USA manufactures the mentioned parts under PMA FAA approval. These parts are reversed engineered and are not manufactured under license/permission of Rolls Royce.
American PMA FAA parts are accepted replacement in the USA by the FAA but are only accepted without approval of EASA if they are non-critical flight items. I don't think that Camshafts , Followers, Mayor engine castings are under this category.
If my memory serves me well, the Vickers Vimy replica original had Mercedes engines installed. When it flew to the USA, Mercedes started a lawsuit to prevent their engine being used as such over American soil. They re-engined it with American V-8's.
Same for Boeing replicas of the Peashooter for which the Boeing Company forbid to use their name.
I can already see the Rolls Royce lawyers thinking of an accident caused by an Rolls Royce Merlin engine failure which could be traced back to an aftermarket part.
Ofcourse I am not an expert and could be wrong, so if you know such a Merlin flying around in Europe I would be more then interested, so I could see under which provisions they got their approval.
Pim
Early Birds Foundation Netherlands
Mustang P-51D, 44-74923